Conlang Mailing List – February 2006, week 3

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Table of contents:

• A new funlang: Gobldi Guk (6 messages)
• Ease of pronunciation (5 messages)
• Essence of Elvishness (5 messages)
• Funky Mathlangs (Was: We Z'te) (3 messages)
• Fwd: Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (3 messages)
• Hi, everybody! (3 messages)
• Languages with the essential parts removed (was: Greek plosives)
• Latin Tutorial
• META: brown.edu is frequently off ATM? (2 messages)
• monovalence (9 messages)
• My language (12 messages)
• NLF2DWS approach in archives (WAS: intuitive writing)
• NLF2DWS Manifesto - draft location
• Non-linear full-2d writing systems: request for summarized arguments / issues to address
• Old Albic and the quest for the essence of Elvishness (2 messages)
• Other Vulgar Latins? (11 messages)
• Patient marking in active languages (11 messages)
• Problem (?) in Gwr sound changes
• Revised sketch of Old Albic now on FrathWiki (7 messages)
• Silindion Dialects [was an axe to grind] (5 messages)
• Tam Lin translation exercise (6 messages)
• Thalassan possessive and object suffixes (6 messages)
• Time words and that ZBB game (was Re: Reviving an old tradition)
• To What Extent is Standard Finnish a Conlang? (3 messages)
• Upstart Conlang Community on IRC (3 messages)
• We Z'te (8 messages)
• YAEPT: apparently bizarre 'A's (was Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?)) (3 messages)
• YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?) (4 messages)

1. A new funlang: Gobldi Guk
   • A new funlang: Gobldi Guk (35 lines)
     From: Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:26:51 +0100
   • Re: A new funlang: Gobldi Guk (54 lines)
     From: Wesley Parish <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:45:27 +1300
   • Re: A new funlang: Gobldi Guk (85 lines)
     From: Wesley Parish <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:19:03 +1300
   • Re: A new funlang: Gobldi Guk (40 lines)
     From: Peter Bleackley <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 08:47:13 +0000
   • Re: A new funlang: Gobldi Guk (67 lines)
     From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:33:40 +0100
   • Re: A new funlang: Gobldi Guk (62 lines)
     From: Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:49:43 +0100

2. Ease of pronunciation
   • Ease of pronunciation (36 lines)
     From: René Uittenbogaard <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:04:02 +0100
   • Re: Ease of pronunciation (54 lines)
     From: David J. Peterson <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 01:58:55 -0800
   • Re: Ease of pronunciation (44 lines)
     From: Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:29:36 +0100
   • Re: Ease of pronunciation (71 lines)
     From: Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:45:24 +0100
   • Re: Ease of pronunciation (48 lines)
     From: René Uittenbogaard <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:33:54 +0100

3. Essence of Elvishness
   • Re: Essence of Elvishness (60 lines)
     From: John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:27:08 +0200
   • Re: Essence of Elvishness (39 lines)
     From: Kris Kowal <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:39:31 -0800
   • Re: Essence of Elvishness (44 lines)
     From: Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:09:01 +0100
   • Re: Essence of Elvishness (47 lines)
     From: Kris Kowal <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:35:48 -0800
   • Re: Essence of Elvishness (40 lines)
     From: R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:14:00 +0000

4. Funky Mathlangs (Was: We Z'te)
   • Funky Mathlangs (Was: We Z'te) (58 lines)
     From: [log in to unmask]
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 10:03:14 -0800
   • Re: Funky Mathlangs (Was: We Z'te) (35 lines)
     From: Nokta Kanto <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:27:18 -0500
   • Re: Funky Mathlangs (Was: We Z'te) (61 lines)
     From: [log in to unmask]
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:35:35 -0800

5. Fwd: Re: Other Vulgar Latins?
   • Fwd: Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (44 lines)
     From: caeruleancentaur <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:56:10 -0000
   • Re: Fwd: Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (38 lines)
     From: Senno Niegendorff <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:27:01 +0100
   • Re: Fwd: Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (47 lines)
     From: Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:07:58 -0500

6. Hi, everybody!
   • Hi, everybody! (51 lines)
     From: Joe <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:58:52 +0000
   • Re: Hi, everybody! (60 lines)
     From: Henrik Theiling <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:17:57 +0100
   • Re: Hi, everybody! (41 lines)
     From: Carsten Becker <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 14:29:24 +0100

7. Languages with the essential parts removed (was: Greek plosives)
   • Re: Languages with the essential parts removed (was: Greek plosives) (42 lines)
     From: John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:01:34 +0200

8. Latin Tutorial
   • Latin Tutorial (55 lines)
     From: Michael Adams <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:37:35 -0900

9. META: brown.edu is frequently off ATM?
   • META: brown.edu is frequently off ATM? (37 lines)
     From: Carsten Becker <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 20:20:47 +0100
   • Re: META: brown.edu is frequently off ATM? (48 lines)
     From: Henrik Theiling <[log in to unmask]>
     Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 21:51:53 +0100

10. monovalence
    • monovalence (32 lines)
      From: Paul Bennett <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:49:48 -0500
    • Re: monovalence (72 lines)
      From: Peter Bleackley <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:25:07 +0000
    • Re: monovalence (64 lines)
      From: David J. Peterson <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:06:39 -0800
    • Re: monovalence (40 lines)
      From: Amanda Babcock Furrow <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:11:32 -0500
    • Re: monovalence (86 lines)
      From: Henrik Theiling <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 02:13:21 +0100
    • Re: monovalence (47 lines)
      From: Peter Bleackley <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:02:52 +0000
    • Re: monovalence (56 lines)
      From: Paul Bennett <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 07:42:45 -0500
    • Re: monovalence (54 lines)
      From: Paul Bennett <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 07:53:59 -0500
    • Re: monovalence (51 lines)
      From: Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:35:13 -0800

11. My language
    • My language (31 lines)
      From: [log in to unmask]
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:43:26 -0800
    • Re: My language (40 lines)
      From: Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:47:54 +0100
    • Re: My language (48 lines)
      From: [log in to unmask]
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:10:58 -0800
    • Re: My language (39 lines)
      From: John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 00:55:03 +0200
    • Re: My language (48 lines)
      From: [log in to unmask]
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:03:32 -0800
    • Re: My language (37 lines)
      From: Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:30:07 +0100
    • Re: My language (57 lines)
      From: Aidan Grey <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 02:15:07 -0800
    • Re: My language (44 lines)
      From: Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:58:05 +0100
    • Re: My language (53 lines)
      From: caeruleancentaur <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 12:13:01 -0000
    • Re: My language (47 lines)
      From: Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:38:47 -0500
    • Re: My language (72 lines)
      From: John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:59:50 +0200
    • Re: My language (40 lines)
      From: [log in to unmask]
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:24:55 -0800

12. NLF2DWS approach in archives (WAS: intuitive writing)
    • NLF2DWS approach in archives (WAS: intuitive writing) (376 lines)
      From: Sai Emrys <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:11:37 -0800

13. NLF2DWS Manifesto - draft location
    • NLF2DWS Manifesto - draft location (42 lines)
      From: Sai Emrys <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 06:02:54 -0800

14. Non-linear full-2d writing systems: request for summarized arguments / issues to address
    • Non-linear full-2d writing systems: request for summarized arguments / issues to address (82 lines)
      From: Sai Emrys <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 02:10:27 -0800

15. Old Albic and the quest for the essence of Elvishness
    • Old Albic and the quest for the essence of Elvishness (72 lines)
      From: Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:38:13 +0100
    • Re: Old Albic and the quest for the essence of Elvishness (93 lines)
      From: Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:12:24 +0100

16. Other Vulgar Latins?
    • Other Vulgar Latins? (34 lines)
      From: Peter Bleackley <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:08:35 +0000
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (92 lines)
      From: R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:04:25 +0000
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (51 lines)
      From: caeruleancentaur <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:36:41 -0000
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (59 lines)
      From: R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:24:45 +0000
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (67 lines)
      From: David J. Peterson <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:24:31 -0800
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (94 lines)
      From: Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:42:14 +0100
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (77 lines)
      From: Keith Gaughan <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:43:24 -0500
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (45 lines)
      From: Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:52:23 -0800
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (42 lines)
      From: Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:10:14 -0500
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (52 lines)
      From: Tristan Alexander McLeay <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:07:28 +1100
    • Re: Other Vulgar Latins? (44 lines)
      From: Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:32:33 -0500

17. Patient marking in active languages
    • Patient marking in active languages (24 lines)
      From: Nokta Kanto <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:14:23 -0500
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (84 lines)
      From: Aidan Grey <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:28:16 -0800
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (47 lines)
      From: taliesin the storyteller <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:30:17 +0100
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (51 lines)
      From: Carsten Becker <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:02:50 +0100
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (42 lines)
      From: Tim May <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 20:35:37 +0000
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (24 lines)
      From: Nokta Kanto <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:20:20 -0500
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (47 lines)
      From: caeruleancentaur <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 01:35:39 -0000
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (60 lines)
      From: Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:07:33 +0100
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (85 lines)
      From: Carsten Becker <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 14:29:45 +0100
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (86 lines)
      From: Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 14:01:53 -0500
    • Re: Patient marking in active languages (28 lines)
      From: Nokta Kanto <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 21:45:25 -0500

18. Problem (?) in Gwr sound changes
    • Re: Problem (?) in Gwr sound changes (37 lines)
      From: Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:15:58 -0500

19. Revised sketch of Old Albic now on FrathWiki
    • Revised sketch of Old Albic now on FrathWiki (37 lines)
      From: Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 22:53:07 +0100
    • Re: Revised sketch of Old Albic now on FrathWiki (45 lines)
      From: Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:07:32 -0500
    • Re: Revised sketch of Old Albic now on FrathWiki (44 lines)
      From: Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:26:40 -0500
    • Re: Revised sketch of Old Albic now on FrathWiki (56 lines)
      From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:58:16 +0100
    • Re: Revised sketch of Old Albic now on FrathWiki (57 lines)
      From: Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:12:43 -0800
    • Re: Revised sketch of Old Albic now on FrathWiki (53 lines)
      From: Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:54:47 +0100
    • Re: Revised sketch of Old Albic now on FrathWiki (48 lines)
      From: Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:37:09 -0500

20. Silindion Dialects [was an axe to grind]
    • Re: Silindion Dialects [was an axe to grind] (93 lines)
      From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 00:47:32 +0100
    • Re: Silindion Dialects [was an axe to grind] (40 lines)
      From: caeruleancentaur <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 03:15:25 -0000
    • Re: Silindion Dialects [was an axe to grind] (63 lines)
      From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:02:35 +0100
    • Re: Silindion Dialects [was an axe to grind] (121 lines)
      From: Elliott Lash <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:20:17 -0800
    • Re: Silindion Dialects [was an axe to grind] (39 lines)
      From: Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 11:57:38 -0800

21. Tam Lin translation exercise
    • Tam Lin translation exercise (36 lines)
      From: Peter Bleackley <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:54:56 +0000
    • Re: Tam Lin translation exercise (48 lines)
      From: Paul Bennett <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:43:39 -0500
    • Re: Tam Lin translation exercise (61 lines)
      From: John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:09:36 +0200
    • Re: Tam Lin translation exercise (51 lines)
      From: caeruleancentaur <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:02:35 -0000
    • Re: Tam Lin translation exercise (71 lines)
      From: Carsten Becker <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:35:35 +0100
    • Re: Tam Lin translation exercise (45 lines)
      From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:58:23 +1100

22. Thalassan possessive and object suffixes
    • Re: Thalassan possessive and object suffixes (114 lines)
      From: Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:56:24 +0100
    • Re: Thalassan possessive and object suffixes (53 lines)
      From: Rob Haden <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:19:05 -0500
    • Re: Thalassan possessive and object suffixes (26 lines)
      From: Rob Haden <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:27:29 -0500
    • Re: Thalassan possessive and object suffixes (73 lines)
      From: Christian Thalmann <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:40:36 -0000
    • Re: Thalassan possessive and object suffixes (67 lines)
      From: Rob Haden <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:03:47 -0500
    • Re: Thalassan possessive and object suffixes (52 lines)
      From: Christian Köttl <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:14:00 +0100

23. Time words and that ZBB game (was Re: Reviving an old tradition)
    • Re: Time words and that ZBB game (was Re: Reviving an old tradition) (64 lines)
      From: Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:54:03 -0500

24. To What Extent is Standard Finnish a Conlang?
    • Re: To What Extent is Standard Finnish a Conlang? (35 lines)
      From: Markus Miekk-oja <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:57:51 +0200
    • Re: To What Extent is Standard Finnish a Conlang? (106 lines)
      From: Julia "Schnecki" Simon <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:18:14 +0200
    • Re: To What Extent is Standard Finnish a Conlang? (71 lines)
      From: John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:06:06 +0200

25. Upstart Conlang Community on IRC
    • Upstart Conlang Community on IRC (25 lines)
      From: Chris Weimer <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 21:10:09 -0500
    • Re: Upstart Conlang Community on IRC (43 lines)
      From: Arthaey Angosii <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:32:37 -0800
    • Re: Upstart Conlang Community on IRC (55 lines)
      From: Chris Weimer <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 10:28:59 -0600

26. We Z'te
    • We Z'te (43 lines)
      From: Mikul Tuba <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 16:14:37 -0500
    • Re: We Z'te (56 lines)
      From: John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:59:25 +0200
    • Re: We Z'te (24 lines)
      From: Mikul Tuba <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:20:53 -0500
    • Re: We Z'te (42 lines)
      From: John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:23:07 +0200
    • Re: We Z'te (92 lines)
      From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:30:28 +1100
    • Re: We Z'te (29 lines)
      From: Mikul Tuba <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:55:35 -0500
    • Re: We Z'te (51 lines)
      From: [log in to unmask]
      Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:28:11 -0800
    • Re: We Z'te (24 lines)
      From: Mikul Tuba <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:18:01 -0500

27. YAEPT: apparently bizarre 'A's (was Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?))
    • YAEPT: apparently bizarre 'A's (was Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?)) (84 lines)
      From: Paul Bennett <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:02:01 -0500
    • Re: YAEPT: apparently bizarre 'A's (was Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?)) (52 lines)
      From: Paul Bennett <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:07:04 -0500
    • Re: YAEPT: apparently bizarre 'A's (was Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?)) (97 lines)
      From: Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:36:28 -0800

28. YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?)
    • YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?) (63 lines)
      From: Paul Bennett <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:53:55 -0500
    • Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?) (68 lines)
      From: Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:03:08 -0500
    • Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?) (148 lines)
      From: Tristan Alexander McLeay <[log in to unmask]>
      Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:12:07 +1100
    • Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?) (43 lines)
      From: [log in to unmask]
      Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:41:24 -0800