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At 11:38 17.4.2000 -0400, Kenji Schwarz wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, BP Jonsson wrote:
>
> > Have to agree on that one. Possibly the good Lama didn't know it. (Or was
> > anti-Chinese!) I'e also read that the linguist involved with Vagintara
> > (the name escapes me) made his own attempt at a modernizing the Mongol
> > script before devising the Cyrillic to save his neck. Never seen it tho.
>
>I didn't know about that -- or that the same person who did the Vagintara
>script also was responsible for the Cyrillic orthography of Mongol (I had
>heard that Poppe and other Soviet scholars came up with it, with
>Zhamtsarano (?) or Damdinsuren (?).
The name was Samtsuren -- probably the same person as Zhamtsarano. (I got
the info from Poppe, IIRC, and it is only natural if he wanted to downplay
his own rôle.)
> > >Well, someday, someone really should adopt it for a conlang -- some little
> > >minority nationality in Yunnan/Sichuan that kept some traditions going
> > >from the Yuan dynasty?
> >
> > Boudewijn already has! I like the script, but not the way Mongol is
> > rendered into it.
>
>Really? What language is that? I must have missed it, but I'd love to
>hear about it!
Well, check out his page about Charyan script, and you'll see! It's a
twist to it...
>given that 15th-ct. Korea was fairly cut off from dealings with the
>Chinese court, while it's known to have continued training people in
>Mongolian and 'phags-pa script up through the end of the 14th ct. (IIRC).
I didn't know that!
> > have you BTW seen Sanskrit written in Hangyl? That's real weird. If
> > Sanskrit in East Asia sounded anything like it ought to -- and
> > transcriptions into Kana suggest it did -- then both Chinese and Korean
> > sounded very different from now!
>
>No doubt :) On the other hand, Sanskrit definitely could get pretty
>warped as it was adopted into some of those northernmost languages (e.g.,
>Skt punya -> Mongol buyan)
Or padma -> pE:ma, vajra -> bendzire in demotic Tibetan. Anyway the
Koreans seem to be consistently using _m_ for _v_ and _n_ for _l_ and _r_,
and the old Hangyl character looking like a Greek Delta for _ñ_, while _mb_
and _nd_ are used for the Sanskrit plain nasals as well as Sanskrit _mb_,
_nd_. I know the Chinese rime tables seem to have used a similar
rendering, but given the relatively high quality of contemporary documents
written in Siddham in both Korea and japan it is really strange!
> > Thing is I got a sadhana print where someone has written in the Sanskrit
> > names (I think) of the deities in Mongolian script. There are still some I
> > haven't been able to identify.
>
>Well, if you can get me an image of it, I'd enjoy giving it a try -- I can
>also see if Jim Bosson can make any sense out of it, since he's here right
>now.
I tried to scan some pages of the book. Since it is already a photocopy of
a not-to-good print the results are measly. I can transcribe the Tibetan
names and what I think the Mongolian spellings look like, tho.
/BP
B.Philip Jonsson <mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
Anant' avanaute quettalmar! \ \
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2001, Week 1 August 2001, Week 5 August 2001, Week 4 August 2001, Week 3 August 2001, Week 2 August 2001, Week 1 July 2001, Week 5 July 2001, Week 4 July 2001, Week 3 July 2001, Week 2 July 2001, Week 1 June 2001, Week 5 June 2001, Week 4 June 2001, Week 3 June 2001, Week 2 June 2001, Week 1 May 2001, Week 5 May 2001, Week 4 May 2001, Week 3 May 2001, Week 2 May 2001, Week 1 April 2001, Week 5 April 2001, Week 4 April 2001, Week 3 April 2001, Week 2 April 2001, Week 1 March 2001, Week 5 March 2001, Week 4 March 2001, Week 3 March 2001, Week 2 March 2001, Week 1 February 2001, Week 4 February 2001, Week 3 February 2001, Week 2 February 2001, Week 1 January 2001, Week 5 January 2001, Week 4 January 2001, Week 3 January 2001, Week 2 January 2001, Week 1 December 2000, Week 5 December 2000, Week 4 December 2000, Week 3 December 2000, Week 2 December 2000, Week 1 November 2000, Week 5 November 2000, Week 4 November 2000, Week 3 November 2000, Week 2 November 2000, Week 1 October 2000, Week 5 October 2000, Week 4 October 2000, Week 3 October 2000, Week 2 October 2000, Week 1 September 2000, Week 5 September 2000, Week 4 September 2000, Week 3 September 2000, Week 2 September 2000, Week 1 August 2000, Week 5 August 2000, Week 4 August 2000, Week 3 August 2000, Week 2 August 2000, Week 1 July 2000, Week 5 July 2000, Week 4 July 2000, Week 3 July 2000, Week 2 July 2000, Week 1 June 2000, Week 5 June 2000, Week 4 June 2000, Week 3 June 2000, Week 2 June 2000, Week 1 May 2000, Week 5 May 2000, Week 4 May 2000, Week 3 May 2000, Week 2 May 2000, Week 1 April 2000, Week 5 April 2000, Week 4 April 2000, Week 3 April 2000, Week 2 April 2000, Week 1 March 2000, Week 5 March 2000, Week 4 March 2000, Week 3 March 2000, Week 2 March 2000, Week 1 February 2000, Week 5 February 2000, Week 4 February 2000, Week 3 February 2000, Week 2 February 2000, Week 1 January 2000, Week 5 January 2000, Week 4 January 2000, Week 3 January 2000, Week 2 January 2000, Week 1 December 1999, Week 5 December 1999, Week 4 December 1999, Week 3 December 1999, Week 2 December 1999, Week 1 November 1999, Week 5 November 1999, Week 4 November 1999, Week 3 November 1999, Week 2 November 1999, Week 1 October 1999, Week 5 October 1999, Week 4 October 1999, Week 3 October 1999, Week 2 October 1999, Week 1 September 1999, Week 5 September 1999, Week 4 September 1999, Week 3 September 1999, Week 2 September 1999, Week 1 August 1999, Week 5 August 1999, Week 4 August 1999, Week 3 August 1999, Week 2 August 1999, Week 1 July 1999, Week 5 July 1999, Week 4 July 1999, Week 3 July 1999, Week 2 July 1999, Week 1 June 1999, Week 5 June 1999, Week 4 June 1999, Week 3 June 1999, Week 2 June 1999, Week 1 May 1999, Week 5 May 1999, Week 4 May 1999, Week 3 May 1999, Week 2 May 1999, Week 1 April 1999, Week 5 April 1999, Week 4 April 1999, Week 3 April 1999, Week 2 April 1999, Week 1 March 1999, Week 5 March 1999, Week 4 March 1999, Week 3 March 1999, Week 2 March 1999, Week 1 February 1999, Week 5 February 1999, Week 4 February 1999, Week 3 February 1999, Week 2 February 1999, Week 1 January 1999, Week 5 January 1999, Week 4 January 1999, Week 3 January 1999, Week 2 January 1999, Week 1 December 1998, Week 5 December 1998, Week 4 December 1998, Week 3 December 1998, Week 2 December 1998, Week 1 November 1998, Week 5 November 1998, Week 4 November 1998, Week 3 November 1998, Week 2 November 1998, Week 1 October 1998, Week 5 October 1998, Week 4 October 1998, Week 3 October 1998, Week 2 October 1998, Week 1 September 1998, Week 5 September 1998, Week 4 September 1998, Week 3
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