[log in to unmask] writes:

> On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 09:55:02PM -0500, Elliott Lash wrote:
>
> > Coincidentally, i came across this problem only a few minutes after reading
> > the first post of this string. I was translating a bit of the Mabinogi in
> > to Nindic. I came across the sentence:
> >
> > And before the feast was over she became his bride.
> Original "Kyn daruot y wled honno, y kyscwyt genti"
> Spelling modernised "Cyn darfod y wledd honno, y cysgwyd genti"
> Trans "Before that feast was over, he slept with her"
> The verb _darfod_ is a compound of _bod_ 'to be' and means "to be over"
> "to be done, finished, completed, disposed of" etc. The form used is the
> verbal noun, so the meaning is literally "before (the) ending (of) the feast
> that_one ..."

Yes, thank you..I've always wanted to read the original, i can't find it in stores, and I can't keep on taking it out of my University's library.

> >"Tarry ye here the rest of the feast, and I will go ..."
> Orig. "Ar ny deryw o'r wled, treulwch chwi, a minheu a af ..."
> Mod. Orthog. "Ar ni dderyw o'r wledd, treuliwch chwi, a minnau a af ..."
> Trans "Since the feast is not over, spend/pass/consume ye [the remainder],
> and I myself will go ..."
> Here _daryw_ is a finite form of _darfod_, 3s present 'to be over, done with'
> or here with _ni_ 'not to be over, to be incomplete, continueing'. The sense
> is stative. The following verb _treuliwch_ is the 2pl imperative of _treulio_
> "to use up, consume, wear out, spend (money)" which perhaps gives a pointer
> to the more general sense behind "spend" if we try to think like people in
> a society much less involved with money (where e.g. rents were generally
> paid in kind). The sense is less "wait behind while I go away" as "you all
> just keep on partying and I'll go off and pay my respects to Caswallon"
>
> > Where the problem was: the rest of the feast.
> Which remarkably is left unexpressed in the original, it's just an artifact
> of going through English (and a pretty flowery translation at that, is it
> Lady Charlotte Guest?). It would be perhaps _gweddill y wledd_ 'the remainder
> of the feast' or maybe _o'r sydd yn aros_ 'that which is left, is remaining'.


I like the second one better, in reminds me more of Modern Welsh. And I'm not sure of the translation...it's an internet tranlsation

> > To get around this problem, I created the root:
> >  -DEK- duration,last,pass, etc.
> > A preposition from this root would be *edek, which would have the
> > form: edheg, in Nindic, and ere, in Silindion.
> > Since neither has a perlative case, i assigned it the allative case in
> > Silindion (any other suggestions?), and the oblique form in Nindic.
> Knowing little about the Eldar tongues, I'm puzzled as to why you didn't
> create a noun "remainder, remnant" or possibly an adjective or stative
> verb "remaining". The use of a preposition seems a bit odd.

Neep....when'd I ever say that it was an 'Eldar' tongue?
The preposition means 'throughout, during, through' so forrh.

Elliott Lash