Christophe Grandsire wrote:
 >En réponse à Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]>:
 >
 > >
 > > I'm obviously missing something here. Do you mean that the C-IPA
 > > diacritics
 > > causes to symbols to move between different positions on the IPA chart
 > > rather than between different actual PoAs?
 > >
 >
 >Yep.

OK.

 > The choice of diacritics that look like IPA diacritics is for mnemonics
 >only (as I'm explaining for the third time now).
 >
 > > I disagree about X-SAMPA [s_d] not being a true voiceless dental
 > > fricative.
 > > I mean, it's voiceless, dental and fricative! Indeed, I can produce [T]
 > > and
 > > [s_d] at the same PoA - don't ask me what the essential articulatory
 > > difference is*, but it's not PoA.
 > >
 > > * I guess it has something to do with the difference between sibilant
 > > and
 > > non-sibilant fricatives, but I don't know what that difference is. I'm
 > > getting out of my depth here, I'm afraid.
 > >
 >
 >I personally find [T] pretty sibilant, so I don't know what the difference
is
 >either.

What _is_ a sibilant anyway? It seems that [T D] are not normally classed as
sibilants, however.

 > > IPA, however, has no symbol for it. ( Up-side-down "a" being on the
 > > same
 > > height as ash.)
 > >
 >
 >*That's* @} (since the schwa is a bit lower than open-mid vowels). You
forgot
 >that C-IPA's purpose is to transliterate the IPA and only the IPA, and not
 >to "correct" its "mistakes". Thus it doesn't provide simple ways to mark
 >characters that don't exist in the IPA.

You seem to've snipped part of what you're replying to, but [@}] for IPA
turned a seems sensible. Was [a-] being [A]?

 > > Well, then "+" obviously does not merely shift the PoA forward (since
 > > it's
 > > able to change the "sibilancy", or whatever). Moving on the IPA chart
 > > works,
 > > of course.
 > >
 >
 >Since the IPA chart is organised in terms of PoA (labial, labiodental,
dental,
 >etc...) and MoA (stop, fricative, trill, etc...), that's how I described
it. I
 >said exactly that I was talking about moving in the chart in my mail.

I obviously missed the part about specifically refering to the IPA chart.
I'm sorry.
 >
 > > But I don't understand what two systems I'm supposedly mixing?
 > >
 >
 >The actual IPA diacritics (consistently rendered with a ^ followed by
another
 >character in C-IPA) with the C-IPA diacritics which move characters on the
 >chart.

I've spoken about IPA diacritics in this thread? What did I say?

                                                  Andreas





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