On 01 May 2004 <takatunu <[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

> <<<< The "te"- form is similar to the  European non-finite verbal forms:
> it must be placed in a slot of another verb. Therefore it has no own
> subject. <<<<
>
> I don't think so. "utatte" has "kare" as subject.

  Just like as "singing" has "he" in English sentence "He dances while
singing." But in a more correct analysis "singing" is a complement of
the main verb and the main verb has subject.

  Of course there are difference in every language when we use
subordination (as in case of -te) and coordination (as in case of to).

  Can be a finite verb form that doesn't express basic cathegories like
tense and politness, and it inherits these from another inflected verb
in the sentence? E.g. Kyouto he _kite_ bukkyou wo benkyou *shimashita*.
'X _came_ into Kyoto and *studied* Buddhism.' Only the finite verb
*shimashita* is inflected by tense and politness while _kite_ isn't.
It's a typical feature of non-finite verbal forms.


> Not necessarily. It may show simultaneity (as in utainagara) as well as
> several stages (as in utatte kara) or else (as in utattari shite.) There
> are several possibilities.

  You wrote about "In Japanese the linking tag between two predicates
whose subjects are ...". I reflected only to this special topic, to
this special contast.


> You lost me here: I fail to see what's different from what I wrote
> previously.

  The subject of your posting was "THEORY: The fourth person". Probably
this misled me, therefore I was simply arguing against that your
examples would be connected with obviativity.


> Anyway, I have the feeling that Japanese threads are like the English
> ones: Nobody will change his habits for so much.

  I don't want to debate with you for the sake of the debate itself. I
was in the belive that you were talking about a "4th person"
construction in Japanese.