--- Christophe Grandsire >
> Once again, you're referring to something that is
> *not* existing in French,
> even colloquial (and I've had a few friends from
> Lyon, who *never* used
> such an expression). But you gave it its right
> origin: Frederic Dard
> *invented* it, using the correct expression as a
> template: "se pisser
> [chier] dessus" ("dessus" is the adverb associated
> with "sur": "on". In
> this context, it means "on oneself". I tell that to
> our fellow
> non-French-speaking conlangers :) ). It's not the
> first time I see an
> author inventing new expressions by changing on word
> or another for comical
> effect. For instance, the replacement of "dessus"
> with "parmi", gives an
> impression that the man is not only peeing on
> himself, but on everyone
> around him, thus making the expression comically
> exaggerated.

I'm not quite sure he invented it (in fact, he was
from Bourgoin-Jallieu, but I said Lyons area because
Bourgoin-Jallieu might be little known worldwide). But
he also lived in Switzerland and sometimes refers to
expressions used by francophone Swiss people. Thus
maybe it is used around the French / Swiss border.

>
> >  We just try to refrain ourselves from saying
> >so, in order not to be mocked. This is a very
> >interesting case of linguistic frustration, or
> >auto-censuring.
>
> Well, as you said, they *are* pleonasms. There's
> just no need to use the
> full expression, except when you're playing on its
> comical effect :) .

Sure, there is no need, from a logical point of view,
but the fact is sometimes you just feel like saying
so, and you have to think for a while: "oh no, that's
not correct, if I say 'monter', this already includes
the idea of 'en haut'". "Monter en haut" just seems
more expressive, instinctively, and by contrast
"monter là-haut" is correct. Ex: "Monte là-haut, tu
verras Montmartre". If one wanted to be completely
logical, one should just say "Monte là", because
"haut" is already expressed by "monter". But "monter
là-haut" is admitted, while "monter en haut" is not.
Thus maybe the confusion.




=====
Philippe Caquant

"High thoughts must have high language." (Aristophanes, Frogs)


	
		
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