Hallo!

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:12:03 +0100,
Barbara Barrett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> >>Jörg Jotted;
> >>I know little yet about their religion, but I think it was quite much
> >>like the "Eru + Valar" model of the _Silmarillion_.  There was a supreme
> >>God, and several ranks of spiritual beings, ranging from archangels
> >>to the lowliest spirits of nature.
>
>
> >B.Phillip BeePHed;
> >So they were, in essence, Zoroastrians!
>
> Barbara Burbles;
> Nah. Zoroastrains are duotheists with equal but opposite gods of good and
> evil. These folk sound more like early jewish monotheists with one supreme
> god to who created all spiritual beings (even the evil ones) and to whom all
> are subordiante.

Yes.  They aren't duotheists like the Zoroastrians; the Adversary
is not an equal of the One, but rather a great spirit who rebelled
against the One and the loyal spirits, i.e., a Satan/Morgoth
equivalent.  What Phillip might have in mind when he likened Albic
religion to Zoroastrianism are the _Amesha Spentas_ or `immortal
saints', a group of great spirits who helped Ahura Mazda in creating
and maintaining the world, which can, it seems, indeed be likened
to Tolkien's Valar.  (I am no expert on Zoroastrianism, though,
hence I cannot judge whether this comparison holds or not.)

What the Elbi (that's their self-designation; singular _Alba_,
hence `Albic') believe is this:

In the beginning, there was the One, who first called into being
the greater and lesser spirits.  Then the One, assisted by the
greater spirits, created the world.  At this point, the mightiest
of the greater spirits rebelled against the One and became the
Adversary, bringing chaos and disharmony into the world.
After the creation of the world, many of the lesser spirits were
summoned into it to guard it - they became the guardian spirits
of Nature.

However, the Adversary turned many of the lesser spirits to evil,
and even of those who did not turn to evil, most failed
to meet their assignments.  This was because the spirits, being
immortal, existing before the world and foreseeing to exist still
after the world will have perished, looked upon the world as a
big game to which their existence was not tied.  This enabled
the Adversary to wreak great evil, and the One and the greater
spirits held counsel on what to do about this.  They decided
to create humans and endow them with creativity, thus they can
preserve and enrich the world in a way the lesser spirits could
not do, but are mortal and tied in their existence to the world.
Hence, it is the Purpose of humanity to preserve and enrich the world.

The lesser spirits find it hard to deal with the humans.  The mere
existence of the human race reminds them at the fact that they
have failed to fulfill their obligation.  Some try to compensate
for their earlier failure, often by helping humans to fulfill
their Purpose, but some of the more wicked ones see humans as
usurpers and try to harm them whenever they can.

>       (see: Ancient Isreal [vol. 1], by Angelo S Rappoport - it's
> a really good read about how spirits, demons, angels, Elohim, etc were
> intigrated - or should that be rationalised - into a monotheistic world
> view; highly recommended).
>
> Bye the way Jörg, I really loved the culture post ;-)
> Go Albic!
> Ra, Ra, Raaaaa!

Thank you!

> I think that I might post about my "elves" one day now ;-)

Do so!  I'd like to see your variation of this ever-popular theme.

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:02:27 EDT,
John Leland <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I agree with Barbara in finding the conhistorical background for conlangs
> fascinating.
> (As is probably obvious from my conhistorical comments on my own langs.)
> Thank you for providing more detail.
> If I may say so, your Albic people seem to be the conhistorical incarnation
> of a whole cluster of concepts (respect for nature, vegetarianism, relative
> pacificism)  very fashionable in some circles today and sometimes
> attributed with
> dubious historical accuracy to various premodern peoples. My feeling is that
> you are probably wise to create your own imaginary culture to embody those
> values rather than foisting them
> onto some real people who may have been very different (as most notoriously
> with the Maya).

I know what you mean.  All sorts of historic and prehistoric peoples
have been idealized in historically dubious ways.  The Elbi indeed
are somewhat like that, too, I must admit.  We know virtually nothing
about the inhabitants of pre-Celtic Britain, and can make only
guesses about them.  They might indeed have been quite advanced
and powerful, thus giving rise to the Celtic and Germanic traditions
of Elves.  It is also evident that the Hyperborea of the Greek
tradition was Britain (it is said that it was "an island opposite the
country of the Keltoi", among other details that fit Britain).
The Greeks described the Hyperboreans as peaceful and highly
civilized, how much that may be worth or not.  I don't claim that
pre-Celtic Britain was really like my conculture; it could all have
been very different - it could have been an abyss of constant tribal
warfare, slavery and human sacrifices instead.  Even though it is
projected onto a location that exists in the time and space of our
world, the Albic conculture is *imaginary*.  It is just *one of many*
possibilities.  It could all have been very different, and most
likely was.

Greetings,

Jörg.