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CONLANG  March 2010, Week 4

CONLANG March 2010, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Rigorousness of poetic form

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:50:05 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (99 lines)

Eldin has asked some very interesting and pertinent 
questions here.  The answer to some are clearly conditioned 
by phonological structure of the language in questions, 
others on traditions among poets/bards who use the language.

eldin_raigmore wrote:
> If your poetry is metrical, what sorts of "feet" do you
> use, mostly? Iambs or  trochees? Dactyls, anapests, or
> amphibrachs? Or something else?
> 
> Is it the pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables
> that matters? Or the pattern of heavy and light
> syllables? Or the pattern of long vowels and short
> vowels? Or more than one of the above? Or something else?

These two sets of questions must be taken together. Although 
we use terms like iambs, dactyls, anapaests etc when 
describing English prosody, we mean something very different 
from what those terms mean in classical Greek & Latin 
prosody.  The difference is in the way the language achieves 
set beat or rhythm, and that must depend to a great extent 
on the structure of the language.

The quantitative rhythm (patterns of heavy & light 
syllables) works only if the language has no word stress (as 
in ancient Greek) or only weak word stress (as, presumably, 
in Classical Latin) _and_ a marked difference is maintained 
between light & heavy syllables.  In languages like English 
& Russian which have heavy word stress, causing vowels 
unstressed syllables to weaken, quantitative verse is not 
going to work (one has only to look at attempts to implement 
this in English) and meter must depend on patterns of 
stressed & unstressed syllables.

Latin is particularly interesting in this regard.  Unlike 
Classical Greek, Classical Latin did have word stress and, 
contrary to what some books may have one believe, word 
stress did effect Latin prosody; one has only to look at the 
problems Roman poets had in adapting the Greek lyric meters; 
and the Horatian 'canonization' of the Latin forms give 
meters which have, in many cases, quite a different from 
from their Greek originals.  In the case of the, perhaps 
more well known, dactylic hexameters of, e.g. Vergil, we 
find coincidence of quantitative beat and word stress in the 
first and last two feet of the line, with a class of stress 
and beat in the three intervening feet, giving interesting 
contrapuntal effects (scholars argue - and probably will 
always argue, unless someone discovers time travel - how one 
should read such verse).

In Vulgar Latin, as we know, word stress became much more 
marked, affecting vowel qualities in unstressed syllables; 
it is not surprising, therefore, that we find popular verse 
of late Latin & medieval Latin is by and large stress based.

In short, the answer to the questions Eldin rightly poses 
above must depend largely or entirely on the phonological 
structure of your language and, possibly, as Classical Latin 
shows, on the cultural milieu in which the language developed.

> 
> Does your poetry have much to do with end-rhyme?  Or much
> to do with alliteration?
> 
> Is it part of some kinds of poetry to have a certain
> sequence of consonants repeated, but with possibly
> different vowels (or lack of vowels), possibly different
> clusters, possibly different syllable-boundaries,
> possibly different stresses, etc.?
> 
> Does your poetry depend upon the repetition of a certain
> set of key words in a certain set of orders, as in
> Sestinas?

These questions have much more to do with poetic traditions 
within the cultures concerned; and .......

Sal Armoniac wrote:
 > Poetic license.

Yes, while some bards will in certain traditions faithfully 
follow set forms, true poets in all ages will be pushing the 
language to its limits. Poets are innovators - and a good 
thing to.  In fact, I would say that the best poets thrive 
on the tension between rigor and innovation.

If a language is so hide-bound that it won't allow license, 
then its going to die.  If your language actually did get 
spoken by any human community, it would probably surprise 
you what poets might do with your language   ;)

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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