On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> --- On Fri, 8/12/11, Scott Hlad <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Alex and thanks for your queries.
> >
> > Passive voice:
> > I have envisioned a separate class of pronoun (I've not
> > imagined it to be a
> > case - hadn't thought in those terms)
> >
> > English employs the preposition "by" to make the passive
> > voice. Rather than
> > introduce a preposition into the sentence, I have simply
> > made a separate
> > pronoun for the same function. I have not coined any words
> > yet so
>
> I like this much! It makes sense for two such distinct semantic realms to
> be governed by different kinds of pronouns. Will be interesting to see
> how this turns out!
>

"Such distinct semantic realms"? The topicality of the subject and object
are reversed. That doesn't seem like a big deal to me.



>
> Talarian does something very similar, but not with passive verbs. The big
> distinction there is between active and stative verbs (verbs that describe
> action or state of being). Completely different sets of pronouns are used
> for the two kinds of verb.
>
> Active punctual form: wárksi tû = you work at X (habitual)
> Active durative form: wárkasi tû = you are doing X (at the moment)
> Stative form: wórkta cam = you are able to
>
> > The ball was hit by me.
> >
> > Becomes
> >
> > The ball was hit passive.me
> >
> > In a subjectless passive (isn't that called middle voice?)
> > it would simply
> > say "the ball was hit"
>
> Middle voice is where the agent of the verb acts on his own behalf:
>
> I hit me a home-run today!
>
> A subjectless passive is just like a subjectless active -- you've dropped
> the noun or pronoun that tells us specifically who done it:
>
> The ball was hit.
>
> Clearly passive, but we don't know who the agent of the verb is, but we dó
> know that the verb has an agent who did the hitting.
>
> Went to the deli and got him one of those dagwoods they make there.
>
> By dropping the subject pronoun, we're no longer sure who went to the deli
> and neither are we sure if the verb is active or middle. If "I" went to
> the deli, "get" would be an active verb and "him" would simply be the
> indirect object of the verb. If "He" went to the deli, then "get" would
> be a middle verb and "him" would simply refer back to the agent.
>
> Padraic
>

Technically not, I think. "him" as object would imply a different 3rd person
subject; "himself" would be needed to refer back to the agent.

stevo