CONLANG

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews — Sun, 19 May 2013 22:12:05 -0700

I hoe I'll get something out of it. I wish I had my book from Holly LisleI hope I can find it again, since the guide I'm ging through just give brief info, since it was geared towards a class she was teaching.
Do you have a Table of Contents?

Mellissa Green [...]

Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs

H. S. Teoh — Sun, 19 May 2013 19:09:23 -0700

I apologize for starting and then dropping out of the middle of a very
interesting discussion -- it just so happened I left on a vacation and
right now have very spotty internet access. Today I got a more steady
connection so I thought I should (start to) catch up a little.

On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 01:49:28PM +0100, Sam Stutter wrote:
> Just thinking aloud here:
>
> It strikes me that the question people ask when they say "how many
> words does a natlang have?" is actually "how deep and wide is the
> semantic field [...]

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

Daniel Myers — Sun, 19 May 2013 19:06:04 -0700

Howdy, I'm the one doing the language creation seminar. My intention is to gear it towards conlang newbies, so I suspect there won't be much that hasn't been covered here over the past several years. I'm pretty easy to sidetrack, though. ;-) Recording it is fine, as long as you don't make too much fun of my voice. I'm also ok with the recording being posted online. I can't remember what my schedule is like on Friday after the seminar, but I'm pretty easy to find at the con - just look at the Writer's Symposium seminars or at the [...]

Re: A conundrum

Sylvia Sotomayor — Sun, 19 May 2013 18:35:59 -0700

On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
> Can you keep both? I can see a not-so-slight difference------
>
> --- On Sun, 5/19/13, Sylvia Sotomayor wrote:
> So, in the new language, I have a verb aŋi, which means to move around
> or in the vicinity of a vast or amorphous destination. I had the idea
> of modifying aŋi with the adverb mɛya (outwards), in order to make the
> construction X aŋi Y mɛya mean make Y out of X, as in vuya aŋi amba
> mɛya (make something out [...]

Re: A conundrum

Roger Mills — Sun, 19 May 2013 17:24:07 -0700

Can you keep both? I can see a not-so-slight difference------

--- On Sun, 5/19/13, Sylvia Sotomayor wrote:
So, in the new language, I have a verb aŋi, which means to move around
or in the vicinity of a vast or amorphous destination. I had the idea
of modifying aŋi with the adverb mɛya (outwards), in order to make the
construction X aŋi Y mɛya mean make Y out of X, as in vuya aŋi amba
mɛya (make something out of nothing). [...]

Re: Too simple to be derived?

Leonardo Castro — Sun, 19 May 2013 21:10:06 -0300

2013/5/18 Padraic Brown :
> --- On Fri, 5/17/13, Zach Wellstood wrote:
> [...]
> Of course. And "ungood", as I think I mentioned, is indeed a highly
> interesting way of parsing up the universe -- because the author
> did it consciously and with the big picture in mind. It wasn't done out
> of ignorance or naivety, just taking a random list of adjectives (big,
> good, red, fast, fat, best, pretty, warm) and saying "okay, stick 'un-' on
> the front of all those to make the opposite". [...]

Re: Morpheme Classification

Herman Miller — Sun, 19 May 2013 20:06:19 -0400

On 5/19/2013 7:09 PM, neo gu wrote:
> The current SSM3 documentation is up at
>
> http://qiihoskeh.conlang.org/cl/aux/SSM3/S3Intro.htm
>
> Any help with it is appreciated.

What does "ATT" stand for?

For "and" and "or" you might use something like "conjunctive" and
"disjunctive" (from "conjunction" and "disjunction"). The "exactly one
must be true" case could be "exclusive". "Means" could be "instrumental".

A conundrum

Sylvia Sotomayor — Sun, 19 May 2013 16:37:54 -0700

So, in the new language, I have a verb aŋi, which means to move around
or in the vicinity of a vast or amorphous destination. I had the idea
of modifying aŋi with the adverb mɛya (outwards), in order to make the
construction X aŋi Y mɛya mean make Y out of X, as in vuya aŋi amba
mɛya (make something out of nothing). Except, there is this other
verb, ɛmɛmɛ, which means to move in (and around) towards a source
(from any or all directions). And it occurs to me that a construction
like Y ɛmɛmɛ X eya (inwards) [...]

Re: Prairie Dog Language

MorphemeAddict — Sun, 19 May 2013 19:33:49 -0400

The researcher talks about how many prairie dog calls (chatters, jump-yips,
et al.) aren't decipherable yet because there is no associated behavior to
give a clue to the meaning.

I wonder how much of human language has such related behavior. I suspect
that, in adults at least, it's not very much.

stevo

On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Gary Shannon wrote: [...]

Re: NATLANG: Nominatives in Southern Sierra Miwok

Anthony Miles — Sun, 19 May 2013 19:09:52 -0400

> I was browsing Wikipedia for interesting case structures, and I come across Southern Sierra Miwok, a language spoken by Native Americans in California.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Sierra_Miwok_language
>
> Southern Sierra Miwok has nine cases, divided into three groups: autonomous, subordinate, and possessive. Autonomous case suffixes are the last suffix on a word. Subordinate case suffixes must be followed by an autonomous case suffix. The possessive has two allomorphs, one autonomous, one subordinate.
>
> The autonomous case suffixes are Nominative, Accusative, Temporal, and Vocative.
>
> Nominative is used for the subject of the sentence, forms modifying the subject [...]

Re: Morpheme Classification

neo gu — Sun, 19 May 2013 19:09:09 -0400

The current SSM3 documentation is up at

http://qiihoskeh.conlang.org/cl/aux/SSM3/S3Intro.htm

Any help with it is appreciated.

On Sat, 18 May 2013 00:48:39 -0400, neo gu wrote:
>
>SSM3 is coming along. What's not coming along very well is a coherent grammatical description. For example, I have several prefixes described as cases, which is how they sometimes act.
>
>do- genitive with o initial: afroqo odocko (Nom-dog Mod-Gen-boy) "the boy's dog"
>fe- allative with i initial: ifentiba (Sec-All-house) "to the house"
>
>But these can also be used with the e initial:
>
>afroqo edocko. (Nom-dog Vrb-belong_to-boy) "The dog belongs to the [...]

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews — Sun, 19 May 2013 19:02:30 -0700

Thanks for that. Sounds good. Now I see why Tolkeen took ten years to
worldbuild, notthat I plan to take ten years, but it takes a while, and
especially since I have to get specialized formatted books.

Mellissa Green

@GreenNovelist

-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU] On
Behalf Of Casey Borders
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:43 PM
To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
Subject: Re: Language Creation at GenCon [...]

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

Casey Borders — Sun, 19 May 2013 18:51:34 -0400

I don't. I was very surprised to see the sessions. I plan on introducing
myself though!
On May 19, 2013 6:49 PM, "neo gu" wrote:

> On Sun, 19 May 2013 18:43:21 -0400, Casey Borders
> wrote:
>
> >Sorry about that. I'll copy and paste the descriptions.
>
> Thanks! Do you know who's involved in the Language Creation seminar?
>
> >Language Creation:
> >Fictional worlds often include languages to make their setting more
> >believable. This seminar will help you create your own language, suitable
> >for adding color to a game or novel.
> [...]

Prairie Dog Language

Gary Shannon — Sun, 19 May 2013 15:50:20 -0700

http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/researcher-decodes-praire-dog-language-discovers-theyve-been-calling-people-fat.html

Researcher decodes prairie dog language, discovers they've been
talking about us (Video)

Interesting article and video.

--gary

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

neo gu — Sun, 19 May 2013 18:48:58 -0400

On Sun, 19 May 2013 18:43:21 -0400, Casey Borders wrote:

>Sorry about that. I'll copy and paste the descriptions.

Thanks! Do you know who's involved in the Language Creation seminar?

>Language Creation:
>Fictional worlds often include languages to make their setting more
>believable. This seminar will help you create your own language, suitable
>for adding color to a game or novel.
>
>Esperanto:
>Learn Esperanto, the international language, spoken by people worldwide.
>I'll teach the basics of the language, show you how and where it's used
>(*cough* William Shatner *cough*) and give resources for further study.
>Open up a [...]

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

Casey Borders — Sun, 19 May 2013 18:43:21 -0400

Sorry about that. I'll copy and paste the descriptions.

Language Creation:
Fictional worlds often include languages to make their setting more
believable. This seminar will help you create your own language, suitable
for adding color to a game or novel.

Esperanto:
Learn Esperanto, the international language, spoken by people worldwide.
I'll teach the basics of the language, show you how and where it's used
(*cough* William Shatner *cough*) and give resources for further study.
Open up a world of movies, music, and literature you never knew existed.
You'll come back from GenCon as a polyglot! Complete newbies welcome, as
are [...]

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

neo gu — Sun, 19 May 2013 18:33:43 -0400

On Sun, 19 May 2013 12:49:11 -0400, Casey Borders wrote:
>
>This year at GenCon there is going to be a session on creating a language (
>https://www.gencon.com/events/41206) and another on learning Esperanto (
>https://www.gencon.com/events/41738)!

Your link goes to a sign-in page.

>For those of you who aren't familiar with GenCon it is the largest board /
>tabletop gaming convention in the country! It happens every year in
>Indianapolis and is an awesome time! If you have a chance you
>should definitely stop by!
>*
>*
>*Casey Borders*

Re: Conaccents.

H. S. Teoh — Sun, 19 May 2013 13:16:03 -0700

On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 08:34:03AM -0300, Leonardo Castro wrote:
[...]
> > On 11 May 2013 08:33, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> If there are two NPs following the verb, the prosody changes again:
> >>
> >> tara' sa tapa buta' kei misanan dei bata.
> >> tara' sa tapa buta' kei misanan nei bata.
> >> 3SG CVY walk hut ORG village RCP FIN
> >> [tâ4a? sā tapà butá? keī misânan dej bata]
> >> He is walking from the hut to the village.
> >>
> >> There's a [...]

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews — Sun, 19 May 2013 14:46:24 -0700

Thanks, that would be greatly appreciated. Even though I'm using a guide, it
would still be good, and may helpcomplete the guide, as it may offer ideas.

Mellissa Green

@GreenNovelist

-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU] On
Behalf Of Casey Borders
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 11:42 AM
To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
Subject: Re: Language Creation at GenCon

Most likely not but I could try to do an audio recording if the presenter
is up for it.
On May 19, 2013 2:24 PM, "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" <
goldyemoran@gmail.com> wrote: [...]

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

Casey Borders — Sun, 19 May 2013 14:41:33 -0400

Most likely not but I could try to do an audio recording if the presenter
is up for it.
On May 19, 2013 2:24 PM, "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" <
goldyemoran@gmail.com> wrote:

> Will it be online?
>
> Mellissa Green
>
>
> @GreenNovelist
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Casey Borders
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:49 AM
> To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
> Subject: Language Creation at GenCon
>
> This year at GenCon there is going to be a session on creating a language (
> https://www.gencon.com/events/41206) and another on [...]

Re: Language Creation at GenCon

Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews — Sun, 19 May 2013 14:24:09 -0700

Will it be online?

Mellissa Green

@GreenNovelist

-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU] On
Behalf Of Casey Borders
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:49 AM
To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
Subject: Language Creation at GenCon

This year at GenCon there is going to be a session on creating a language (
https://www.gencon.com/events/41206) and another on learning Esperanto (
https://www.gencon.com/events/41738)!

For those of you who aren't familiar with GenCon it is the largest board /
tabletop gaming convention in the country! It happens every year in
Indianapolis and is an awesome time! If you have a chance you
should definitely stop by!
*
[...]

Language Creation at GenCon

Casey Borders — Sun, 19 May 2013 12:49:11 -0400

This year at GenCon there is going to be a session on creating a language (
https://www.gencon.com/events/41206) and another on learning Esperanto (
https://www.gencon.com/events/41738)!

For those of you who aren't familiar with GenCon it is the largest board /
tabletop gaming convention in the country! It happens every year in
Indianapolis and is an awesome time! If you have a chance you
should definitely stop by!
*
*
*Casey Borders*

Re: Too simple to be derived?

Padraic Brown — Sat, 18 May 2013 08:11:41 -0700

--- On Fri, 5/17/13, Zach Wellstood wrote: > > > I have read some criticism about conlangs that derive common words > > > from words; "bad" as "ungood", for instance (what recalls Newspeak > > > and Esperanto). What do you think about it? Do your conlangs have > > > any very common words that are derived from others? > > > If the conlanger does the above out of ignorance or out of naivety, > > then it is ill done, though certainly forgiveable! It is a sign of > > immaturity in the art, and [...]

Re: No = zero ?

BPJ — Sat, 18 May 2013 10:08:46 +0200

2013-05-17 22:36, Elyse M Grasso skrev:

> Some (mostly historical?) dialects of English use nought (nothing)
> as equivalent to zero. The game Americans call tic-tac-toe is
> noughts and crosses in Britain.
>
> Oddly, 'ought' which should be the opposite of 'nought', is (or
> was) also used for zero. I have never heard it used for any
> function except dates: "the year of ought six" [...]

Morpheme Classification

neo gu — Sat, 18 May 2013 00:48:39 -0400

SSM3 is coming along. What's not coming along very well is a coherent grammatical description. For example, I have several prefixes described as cases, which is how they sometimes act.

do- genitive with o initial: afroqo odocko (Nom-dog Mod-Gen-boy) "the boy's dog"
fe- allative with i initial: ifentiba (Sec-All-house) "to the house" [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Douglas Koller — Sat, 18 May 2013 00:11:28 -0400

> Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 17:29:53 -0300
> From: leolucas1980@GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: No = zero ?
> To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

> 2013/5/17 Mechthild Czapp rejistania@me.com:

> > Der Film endet um 0 Uhr.
> > The film ends at zero o'clock. (not really commonly said, in English, but in German, Null Uhr (literally: zero hour) does not sound as wonky).
> > *The film ends at no o'clock. [...]

Re: No = zero ?

George Corley — Fri, 17 May 2013 22:00:30 -0500

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:35 PM, C. Brickner wrote:

> I don’t understand the rationale of using the contemporary meaning of a
> German word to translate a third-century Latin phrase. ‘Nullus’ is not
> translated as zero. Since the concept of zero was unknown to the Romans,
> that translation was not used by them. And, as far as I know, it is not
> used that way by the modern Catholic Church. At least, the word is not
> given that translation in the Dictionary of Ecclesiastical Latin.
>
> One can’t merge ‘zero’ and ‘none’ [...]

Re: No = zero ?

C. Brickner — Fri, 17 May 2013 22:35:30 -0400

I don’t understand the rationale of using the contemporary meaning of a German word to translate a third-century Latin phrase. ‘Nullus’ is not translated as zero. Since the concept of zero was unknown to the Romans, that translation was not used by them. And, as far as I know, it is not used that way by the modern Catholic Church. At least, the word is not given that translation in the Dictionary of Ecclesiastical Latin. [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Leonardo Castro — Fri, 17 May 2013 23:17:23 -0300

2013/5/17 Harald S. :
> Hello everybody! :-)
>
> Delurking after about ten years of only reading the conlang list, I want to point out the interesting fact that in German (as has already been mentioned in this thread) "Null" is the word for zero but actually comes from Latin where "nullus/nulla/nullum" means no one or nothing, respectively. The Catholic church liked to say about itself: Extra ecclesiam nulla salus - Outside of the church (there is) no salvation. But, having the german meaning of "zero" in mind, it could also be interpreted as: Outside of the church there [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Herman Miller — Fri, 17 May 2013 22:07:34 -0400

On 5/17/2013 4:05 PM, Leonardo Castro wrote:
> While developing a new conlang, I came to the question of whether or
> not the words "no" and "zero" can be the same word (when "zero" is not
> refering to the number per se) or if there are subtle logical
> distinctions between these concepts. [...]

Re: Too simple to be derived?

Roger Mills — Fri, 17 May 2013 18:39:53 -0700

Kash can do this with its prefix tar- ~ tra-, basically = Engl. "un-", but sometimes the meaning of the negated form isn't exact.

minda 'happy' , traminda 'unhappy' and quite a few others,
but muko 'bad' (not in the moral sense) , tramuko 'not bad = just OK, so-so'

and leñ is 'good' (in the moral sense) but redup. _traleleñ_ is 'evil' [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Roger Mills — Fri, 17 May 2013 18:34:10 -0700

Well, in Kash "not" is _ta_ (tak before a vowel) and "zero" happens to be derived: _tanda_ < ta+N+ta. This was deliberate on my part :-) "No" (opposite of "yes") is also related, _tayi_

--- On Fri, 5/17/13, Leonardo Castro wrote:

From: Leonardo Castro
Subject: No = zero ?
To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
Date: Friday, May 17, 2013, 4:05 PM [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Harald S. — Fri, 17 May 2013 20:01:21 -0400

Hello everybody! :-)

Delurking after about ten years of only reading the conlang list, I want to point out the interesting fact that in German (as has already been mentioned in this thread) "Null" is the word for zero but actually comes from Latin where "nullus/nulla/nullum" means no one or nothing, respectively. The Catholic church liked to say about itself: Extra ecclesiam nulla salus - Outside of the church (there is) no salvation. But, having the german meaning of "zero" in mind, it could also be interpreted as: Outside of the church there are zero salvations. [...]

Re: Too simple to be derived?

Zach Wellstood — Fri, 17 May 2013 19:17:47 -0400

liyaá' łí'!

=======
If the conlanger does the above out
of ignorance or out of naivety, then it is ill done, though certainly
forgiveable! It is a sign of immaturity in the art, and such a one can
be taught and can improve his works, like a kindergartener taking the
tempra begobbed paint brush in his fist and mashing it onto the newsprint
taped to the easel.
======= [...]

Re: Too simple to be derived?

Jim Henry — Fri, 17 May 2013 18:15:07 -0400

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Leonardo Castro wrote:
> I have read some criticism about conlangs that derive common words
> from words; "bad" as "ungood", for instance (what recalls Newspeak and
> Esperanto). What do you think about it? Do your conlangs have any very
> common words that are derived from others? Are there examples of such [...]

Re: Too simple to be derived?

Padraic Brown — Fri, 17 May 2013 13:56:10 -0700

--- On Fri, 5/17/13, Leonardo Castro wrote:

> I have read some criticism about conlangs that derive common words
> from words; "bad" as "ungood", for instance (what recalls Newspeak and
> Esperanto). What do you think about it?

I think this, especially since you bring up two diametrically opposed kinds
of conlangs: Newspeak and Eserpanto. If the conlanger does the above out
of ignorance or out of naivety, then it is ill done, though certainly
forgiveable! It is a sign of immaturity in the art, and such a one can
be taught and can improve his works, like [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Zach Wellstood — Fri, 17 May 2013 16:49:58 -0400

For what it's worth, łaá siri has had this built into it for quite some
time. It was something I knew I wanted to incorporate, but haven't focused
on it as much as I ought to. But anyway...

There are a small group of verbs which I call "static descriptives"
because they deal mostly with being in a state of something ("to be tall,"
"to be fat," "to be numerous," etc.) These select few static descriptives
can be used as prefixes as well as verb roots -- when used as prefixes,
they indicate that the noun is in a state [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Elyse M Grasso — Fri, 17 May 2013 14:36:02 -0600

On 05/17/2013 02:26 PM, Padraic Brown wrote:
> --- On Fri, 5/17/13, Leonardo Castro wrote:
>
>> While developing a new conlang, I
>> came to the question of whether or
>> not the words "no" and "zero" can be the same word (when
>> "zero" is not
>> refering to the number per se) or if there are subtle
>> logical
>> distinctions between these concepts.
>>
>> Do you feel that the sentences in the following pairs have
>> different senses ? :
>>
>> "No car was sold."
>> "Zero car was sol."
>>
>> "Nothing [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Leonardo Castro — Fri, 17 May 2013 17:29:53 -0300

2013/5/17 Mechthild Czapp :
> I would like to give a few examples where 0 and no are distinct:
>
> The area code for Cologne is 0 2 2 1.
> *The area code for Cologne is no 2 2 1.

Yes, this is a case of what I referred to as "referring to the number
per se", that is, to the digit (maybe to the "signifier" instead of
the "signified"). [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Padraic Brown — Fri, 17 May 2013 13:26:43 -0700

--- On Fri, 5/17/13, Leonardo Castro wrote:

> While developing a new conlang, I
> came to the question of whether or
> not the words "no" and "zero" can be the same word (when
> "zero" is not
> refering to the number per se) or if there are subtle
> logical
> distinctions between these concepts.
>
> Do you feel that the sentences in the following pairs have
> different senses ? :
>
> "No car was sold."
> "Zero car was sol."
>
> "Nothing happens." (~ "No thing happens.")
> "Zero thing happens." [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Mechthild Czapp — Fri, 17 May 2013 21:18:28 +0100

I would like to give a few examples where 0 and no are distinct:

The area code for Cologne is 0 2 2 1.
*The area code for Cologne is no 2 2 1.

Der Film endet um 0 Uhr.
The film ends at zero o'clock. (not really commonly said, in English, but in German, Null Uhr (literally: zero hour) does not sound as wonky).
*The film ends at no o'clock. [...]

Re: No = zero ?

Njenfalgar — Fri, 17 May 2013 17:17:57 -0300

2013/5/17 Leonardo Castro

> While developing a new conlang, I came to the question of whether or
> not the words "no" and "zero" can be the same word (when "zero" is not
> refering to the number per se) or if there are subtle logical
> distinctions between these concepts.
>
> Do you feel that the sentences in the following pairs have different
> senses ? :
>
> "No car was sold."
> "Zero car was sol."
>
> "Nothing happens." (~ "No thing happens.")
> "Zero thing happens."
>
> "No one knows that day [...]

Re: No = zero ?

David Peterson — Fri, 17 May 2013 13:10:30 -0700

One of the words for "no" in ASL comes from zero. It's not used as a modifier like that, though (at least not to my knowledge). Evolutionarily speaking, though, it's zero that would come from "no", not the other way around.

David Peterson
LCS President
president@conlang.org
www.conlang.org

On May 17, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Leonardo Castro wrote: [...]

No = zero ?

Leonardo Castro — Fri, 17 May 2013 17:05:19 -0300

While developing a new conlang, I came to the question of whether or
not the words "no" and "zero" can be the same word (when "zero" is not
refering to the number per se) or if there are subtle logical
distinctions between these concepts.

Do you feel that the sentences in the following pairs have different senses ? : [...]

Too simple to be derived?

Leonardo Castro — Fri, 17 May 2013 16:50:58 -0300

I have read some criticism about conlangs that derive common words
from words; "bad" as "ungood", for instance (what recalls Newspeak and
Esperanto). What do you think about it? Do your conlangs have any very
common words that are derived from others? Are there examples of such
things in natlangs, say, "night" as "between-days" or "mother" as
"female parent"? [...]

Ciao for now!

R A Brown — Fri, 17 May 2013 07:44:01 +0100

Hi,

I'm going nomail for the coming two weeks, as I'm off to
Italy tomorrow. I've left you an Outidic version of the
Lord's Prayer:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Outis/Texts.html

I hope I've transcribed Dr Outis' text correctly ;)

Be back with you all in early June.

Ciao!

Re: Conaccents.

Douglas Koller — Thu, 16 May 2013 23:11:50 -0400

> Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 12:55:01 -0300
> From: leolucas1980@GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: Conaccents.
> To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

> 2013/5/16 George Marques de Jesus :
> > 2013/5/16 Leonardo Castro leolucas1980@gmail.com

> >> For instance, my sister has
> >> conciously changed some features of her Brazilian Portuguese
> >> pronunciation that she disliked, although everybody around her spoke
> >> that way. In her (and my) native accent, there's an intrusive /i/ in
> >> words like "mas" and "três" _ [mais] and [treis] _ but she now
> >> pronounces them as [mas] and [tres]. It's maybe more [...]

Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic]

Anthony Miles — Thu, 16 May 2013 19:20:38 -0400

On 15/05/2013 12:58, Douglas Koller wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 12:55:21 +0100 From: Sam Stutter
>> Subject: Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic] (was: RE: Typical
>> lexicon size in natlangs) To:
>> CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
>
>> Wait, what has this got to do with conlangs again? :)
>
> ObConlang: How do you say Coke, Pepsi, and Orangina in
> your conlangs? There, now you're covered. ;) [...]

Re: Conaccents.

Leonardo Castro — Thu, 16 May 2013 12:55:01 -0300

2013/5/16 George Marques de Jesus :
> 2013/5/16 Leonardo Castro
>
>
>> BTW, by "conaccent" I mean also accents created to speak natlangs,
>> including one's own native language. For instance, my sister has
>> conciously changed some features of her Brazilian Portuguese
>> pronunciation that she disliked, although everybody around her spoke
>> that way. In her (and my) native accent, there's an intrusive /i/ in
>> words like "mas" and "três" _ [mais] and [treis] _ but she now
>> pronounces them as [mas] and [tres]. It's maybe more a matter of
>> influence of orthography/origin [...]

Re: Conaccents.

George Marques de Jesus — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:48:39 -0300

2013/5/16 Leonardo Castro

> BTW, by "conaccent" I mean also accents created to speak natlangs,
> including one's own native language. For instance, my sister has
> conciously changed some features of her Brazilian Portuguese
> pronunciation that she disliked, although everybody around her spoke
> that way. In her (and my) native accent, there's an intrusive /i/ in
> words like "mas" and "três" _ [mais] and [treis] _ but she now
> pronounces them as [mas] and [tres]. It's maybe more a matter of
> influence of orthography/origin than pronunciation prestige, because
> the most widely-broadcast accent [...]

Re: Conaccents.

Leonardo Castro — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:34:03 -0300

2013/5/11 Nina-Kristine Johnson :
> "Nice! And is your conlang spoken with different accents in your
> conworld (if you have one)?"--Leonardo
>
> Well by* World* you mean like Tolkien, fantasy-stuff...no.
>
> But I am making a low-budget, YouTube movie in this language (I'm a total
> amateur!). I have some scenes filmed, already and its going well.
>
> The *World* in this movie is present-day Earth and it plays with "What if
> English was not the dominate language?" (Ehenív takes the place of
> English--English is a minority language).
>
> Yes, I have a [...]

Re: Phonological alternation

Jyri Lehtinen — Thu, 16 May 2013 14:28:02 +0300

>
> Well originally the weak gradation of all of */p t k/
> was stop > voiced fricative, i.e. */β ð ɣ/. In the
> oldest written records these are spelled with
> - /β/ = > for v / V_V>
> - /ð/ =
> - /ɣ/ =
> [...]

Re: SSM3 (was Yet Another Simple Self-Segregating Morphology)

neo gu — Wed, 15 May 2013 22:15:24 -0400

On Mon, 13 May 2013 09:47:18 -0400, neo gu wrote:

>On Sun, 12 May 2013 16:47:18 -0400, neo gu wrote:
>>
>> Every word begins with a V- prefix, probably for syntactical function.
>> There may be medial CV- inflectional prefixes (C is a single consonant).
>> Content words end with 1 or more CC(VC)*V roots, e.g. sti, pkalo, mbelitu.
>> Function words have at least one medial but no roots. [...]

Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic] (was: RE: Typical lexicon size in natlangs)

MorphemeAddict — Wed, 15 May 2013 20:35:47 -0400

All diet drinks taste so strong (and bad) to me that I know in the first
sip if it's diet. And the aftertaste lingers and is hard to get rid of.

I just realized that Saweli-Saxita doesn't have a word for diet in this
sense, although it does have a word that means "diet, a plan or system
guiding what one eats". That doesn't include the sense of what one actually
eats.
"His diet includes diet drinks that aren't part of his diet." [...]

Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic] (was: RE: Typical lexicon size in natlangs)

Jim Henry — Wed, 15 May 2013 19:31:50 -0400

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Douglas Koller
wrote:
> ObConlang: How do you say Coke, Pepsi, and Orangina in your conlangs? There, now you're covered. ;)

gjâ-zym-byn has {kĕ'kul} for cola drinks, as well as root beer.
{kĕ'kul-cjaj}, with the suffix that specifies out a prototypical
instance of a class, is Coca-Cola; other brands of cola are e.g.
{kĕ'kul pepsi-gam}, with a foreign proper name suffix appended to the
transliterated brand name. [...]

Re: Phonological alternation

BPJ — Wed, 15 May 2013 20:33:10 +0200

2013-05-14 19:07, Jeffrey Daniel Rollin-Jones skrev:
> Your ex post facto explanation sounds reasonable, but
> I'm not clear on what's unreasonable about mine?
> After all, in Finnish, (by which, some of you may
> notice by my choice of vocabulary - which I intend to
> replace later - my current conlang is inspired, the
> phoneme spelt "d" in the standard written language
> surfaces as/D/,/l/ or/r/ in spoken dialects - all of
> which are very far from the/t/ which appears before
> the consonant gradation giving rise to (written) "d". [...]

Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic] (was: RE: Typical lexicon size in natlangs)

G. van der Vegt — Wed, 15 May 2013 15:43:53 +0200

It does taste different, just like how sugar-based coke and
syrup-based coke taste differently. Different sweetening agents have
different tastes. They don't just make it sweeter.

That said, I prefer diet coke (and solely for the taste.)

On 15 May 2013 13:55, Sam Stutter wrote:
> I tell you what annoys me - people who try and tell me that diet Coke or caffeine-free Coke tastes different to normal Coke _and_ is, for some reason, revolting.
>
> I can tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi though - Pepsi tastes more like Coke than Coke - if you [...]

Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic]

R A Brown — Wed, 15 May 2013 13:39:40 +0100

Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic] (was: RE: Typical lexicon size in natlangs)

Douglas Koller — Wed, 15 May 2013 07:58:16 -0400

> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 12:55:21 +0100
> From: samjjs89@GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic] (was: RE: Typical lexicon size in natlangs)
> To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

> Wait, what has this got to do with conlangs again? :)

ObConlang: How do you say Coke, Pepsi, and Orangina in your conlangs? There, now you're covered. ;)

Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic] (was: RE: Typical lexicon size in natlangs)

Sam Stutter — Wed, 15 May 2013 12:55:21 +0100

I tell you what annoys me - people who try and tell me that diet Coke or caffeine-free Coke tastes different to normal Coke _and_ is, for some reason, revolting.

I can tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi though - Pepsi tastes more like Coke than Coke - if you see what I mean. And both are inferior in the eyes of Orangina. Wait, what has this got to do with conlangs again? :) [...]

Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic] (was: RE: Typical lexicon size in natlangs)

George Corley — Wed, 15 May 2013 05:31:00 -0500

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 3:39 AM, Elena ``of Valhalla'' <
elena.valhalla@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2013-05-14 at 23:00:59 -0400, Douglas Koller wrote:
> > Can a blindfolded taste-test be far behind? Long-shot of our hapless
> taster at the mall...The big reveal...The squeal of delight...
>
> we did an informal one with our friends (poured in another room, brought
> to the tasters by somebody else, but then I'm not 100% that the one who
> poured did stay in the other room all of the time)
>
> everybody was able to distinguish between bottled coca cola [...]

Re: No Coke, Peksi [sic] (was: RE: Typical lexicon size in natlangs)

Elena ``of Valhalla'' — Wed, 15 May 2013 10:39:03 +0200

On 2013-05-14 at 23:00:59 -0400, Douglas Koller wrote:
> Can a blindfolded taste-test be far behind? Long-shot of our hapless taster at the mall...The big reveal...The squeal of delight...

we did an informal one with our friends (poured in another room, brought
to the tasters by somebody else, but then I'm not 100% that the one who
poured did stay in the other room all of the time) [...]

Re: [THEORY] Good references on sound symbolism / phonosemantics.

John Q — Wed, 15 May 2013 00:30:32 -0400

On Tue, 14 May 2013 11:07:35 -0400, Jim Henry wrote:

>On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Leonardo Castro wrote:
>> Does anyone want to suggest some references on sound symbolism /
>> phonosemantics?
>
>There's the video of John Quijada's talk at LCC2. I'm not sure where
>it is, on YouTube or the LCS Podcast site or where... if the latter,
>it's probably not available at the moment with the Dreamhost problems
>LCS sites have been having.
>