TEI-MS-SIG List

Re: Erasures in

John L. Bryant — Fri, 24 May 2013 21:27:30 +0000

Dear Michael,

Ville's coding is essentially what we do in transcribing erasures in Melville's MS leaves.
And for writing over an erasure, we use , which pairs a with an .

However, I'm not sure what your project's aim is. Are you making a list that itemizes descriptions of features on a leaf, or are you aiming to transcribe all text (erased and visible)? Or something in between: a list with chunks of text? [...]

Re: Erasures in

Michelson, David Allen — Thu, 23 May 2013 16:59:47 +0000

Dear Ville,

Thank you!

Would this work as a complete but abbreviated example? (We are working from a print catalogue rather than the MS itself, so the only information we have is that foil 108a has an erasure and no text is legible).

Fol. 108a

And now for a follow up question, how would we treat overwriting? [...]

Re: Erasures in

Ville Marttila — Thu, 23 May 2013 19:30:43 +0300

Hi,
My solution would be to use something along the lines of (with the
specific form of the attribute values being determined by your conventions):

The arrangement of the elements would thus reflect the fact that the
entire note, whose contents are six lines of unidentifiable text was
first added to the left margin and subsequently erased, in effect
removing the note and canceling the act of addition. If only a part of
the note was erased, I would naturally put the within the ,
indicating that [...]

Erasures in

Michelson, David Allen — Thu, 23 May 2013 16:04:45 +0000

Dear Colleagues,

We would like to document and "transcribe" some additions to a manuscript that then have been erased (where contents illegible).

Looking through the TEI guidelines, we don't see a ready element or attribute for erasure.

Would we use ~~in someway? We would like to have a machine readable method for finding all erasures (http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/PH.html#PHAD)? [...]~~

Re: Paean to Metamark, sort of

Pierazzo, Elena — Wed, 1 May 2013 10:48:54 +0000

Dear John,

(nice to hear from you too) Yes, you are right, is as an empty element, and I can understand why you find this mechanism a bit fiddly having used it quite a bit myself, especially if you compare it with the presence of @hand in . Since you mention it, I don't see why we could not add @hand to , which could be considered as a special case of . May I suggest you to fill a feature request on sourceForge (http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/), giving a few examples of where you would have found useful to have a [...]

Re: Paean to Metamark, sort of

John L. Bryant — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 20:20:01 +0000

Dear Elena,

Good to hear from you.
It's been about two years since I looked into this, and was something we considered, but I can't quite recall why we chose the @hand option over .

We wanted users to be able to draw a box around a revision site, transcribe the text in that box, highlight the text, click on the box, and then get a series of options identifying the revision as either an add, delete, metamark, and so on, and then get a a series of sub-options attributes to further define the add, delete, or metamark. All [...]

Re: Paean to Metamark, sort of

Pierazzo, Elena — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 15:38:16 +0000

Hi John,

have you considered to use within ?
Elena

Paean to Metamark, sort of

John L. Bryant — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 15:18:07 +0000

Dear All, Ben, Garrett, and Lou's interaction prompts me to add some thoughts on Metamark. In building TextLab, the open source MS transcription and fluid-text annotation tool, for the Melville Electronic Library (MEL), we use a good deal, and thank you for it. We use it in Primary Editing, which involves boxing revision sites on digital images that are linked to our TEI editor where you transcribe both revised and unrevised text to set up the code for an XSLT that generates a very credible Diplomatic Transcription of the transcribed MS leaf. (In Secondary Editing, a stand off strategy, [...]

Re: Print/HTML notation for GE:USED?

Lou Burnard — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:59:44 +0100

Yes, thanks Gerrit, I had forgotten to mention that. The feeling was
that "used" was only one of many ways of interpreting this particular
kind of phenomenon and that the generic "metamark" did the same job more
generically. You can of course use the @type and @subtype attributes on
"metaMark" to characterise the things more precisely, so you could (in
your case) distinguish "expiration of contract" from "payment of debt"
for example. [...]

Re: Print/HTML notation for GE:USED?

Gerrit Brüning — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 10:14:52 +0200

Dear Ben,

is one of the few proposed elements that did not make it into
the new version of the Guidelines. The encoding of such phenomena was
concidered "a special case of " (see
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/pipermail/tei-council/2011.txt).

Gerrit

Am 29.04.2013 20:15, schrieb Ben Brumfield:
> I've recently read the Encoding Model for Genetic Editions, and a delighted to discover the USED element.
> http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw19.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.2_div.2
>
> In addition to a client's literary material, I'm dealing with such "deletions" in farm account books -- diagonal lines through contracts and IOUs which indicate expiration of the contract or payment of the debt, rather [...]

Re: Print/HTML notation for GE:USED?

Lou Burnard — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:13:23 +0100

Hi Ben

While I'm delighted you're delighted, you should be aware that that
document is now largely superceded : the Guidelines now include most of
it, with some modification and tweaking. See
http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/PH.html#undo and
points south

As to how such markup is to be displayed -- that's very much an
exercise for the reader. The default stylesheets dont do anything with
it. As you point out this is likely to be very different for different
usages. Your comment seems sound to me. One could also envisage a
time-based representation in which the "used" parts gradually
disappeared from the screen [...]

Print/HTML notation for GE:USED?

Ben Brumfield — Mon, 29 Apr 2013 14:15:14 -0400

I've recently read the Encoding Model for Genetic Editions, and a delighted to discover the USED element.
http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw19.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.2_div.2

In addition to a client's literary material, I'm dealing with such "deletions" in farm account books -- diagonal lines through contracts and IOUs which indicate expiration of the contract or payment of the debt, rather than any actual correction to the text when it was written. It seems like USED is perfect for this situation -- see e.g. half-way down the page on
http://archive.org/stream/Jeremiah_White_Graves_Diary_Volume_2_Book_01/JWGravesVol2Book01#page/n19/mode/1up [...]

Re: [Critical Edition Cheatsheet] How should we encode biblical references?

Marjorie Burghart — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 23:13:19 +0200

Dear all,

Thank you so much for the feedback. I guess it shows how much we need to to
work to make such a simple and common thing as a biblical reference, well,
simple to encode :)

I have updated the "Biblical references" section on the Critical Edition
cheatsheet page on the wiki with the input of the various people who
responded. [...]

List of Institutions

Tucker Hannah — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 13:31:57 -0500

Hi all,

I would like your help compiling a list of institutions using TEI to encode
and digitize manuscripts. I have created a Google Doc for this purpose that
you can find and edit at this link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wv5Xn4aUW8uNUv1c-B5KNyzRx_TmWOKYEZylv5znPzc/edit
.

If you wouldn't mind, take a moment or two to add your project so that we
can all have a sense of the activities of our colleagues. [...]

[Critical Edition Cheatsheet] How should we encode biblical references?

Marjorie Burghart — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:07:53 +0200

Dear all,
This is,I believe, a very common phenomenon in critical edition: we must
identify the biblical quotations, and give their exact reference. It is
more complex and precise than the reference of a regular quote, because
biblical references are very structured, and we will want to process the
information later to, say, make statistics on the use of this or that
pericope, this or that book of the Bible,or simply be able to create a link
in the interface of the edition to the text of the exact verse(s) quoted. [...]

Fwd: Collaboration needed: Creating "cheatsheets" to define best practice for frequent tasks

Marjorie Burghart — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:44:06 +0200

Dear MS SIG members,most of you have probably already received the message
below through the main TEI list, but I would like to stress the fact that
the Critical Editions cheatsheet should be of primary interest to this
group.
You're all invited to participate :)
Marjorie

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Marjorie Burghart
Date: 8 April 2013 22:34
Subject: Collaboration needed: Creating "cheatsheets" to define best
practice for frequent tasks
To: TEI-L@listserv.brown.edu [...]

Re: Scribe name conundrum

James Cummings — Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:00:01 +0100

On 02/04/13 18:12, Martin Holmes wrote:
> doesn't get @ref by default, because it's not a member
> of att.canonical. But you could use @corresp to point to your
> external database:
>
>
>

Hi all,

What Martin suggests is the slightly abusive kind of thing that I
usually do. ;-) If I'm understanding what you're doing
correctly, another solution would be just to have the @xml:id
also be identical to the ID used in the remote database and then
have their relationship just rely on processing magic to know how
to get [...]

Re: Scribe name conundrum

Martin Holmes — Tue, 2 Apr 2013 10:12:56 -0700

doesn't get @ref by default, because it's not a member of
att.canonical. But you could use @corresp to point to your external
database:

Cheers,
Martin

On 13-04-02 09:55 AM, Tucker Hannah wrote:
> I see. Yes, I had forgotten that that's how we had been intending to set
> it up and what the @ref attribute was needed for. We are assigning the
> the xml:id, but we need the att.canonical class so we can link
> that to an external database of URIs. So we need
>
>
Ḥasan ibn ʻAlī ibn
Muḥammad al-Zarkashī
حسن بن علي بن محمد
الزركشي

Hasan started writing here in this ms...
Some other guy took over here ...
Hasan got the pen back at this point [...]

Re: Scribe name conundrum

Tucker Hannah — Tue, 2 Apr 2013 11:19:54 -0500

I like the

construction. I think that looks like it will work perfectly. I also like
that can take a @role attribute which we can define in our schema
to identify our scribes. But if I wanted the to link to a defined
xml:id elsewhere in the document, could I adjust the schema to include the
att.canonical class so I can use the @ref attribute or the att.pointing
class so I can use @target in ? Am I allowed to add attribute
classes to the element definition in a schema, or is that not in line with
[...]

Re: Scribe name conundrum

yasmin faghihi — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 16:31:13 +0000

as we used LC standards, we consistently used the 3letter language codes.

Yasmin

On 26/03/2013 12:29, Martin Holmes wrote:
> One quick point:
>
> xml:lang="ara"
>
> should I think be:
>
> xml:lang="ar"
>
> according to the Guidelines, which follow BCP 47 in recommending the
> use of two-letter values for language codes where they exist. "ar" is
> the recommended value in the language subtag registry:
>
>
>
> The same would apply to the longer value including the script
> information.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
> On 13-03-26 03:46 AM, Lou [...]

Re: Scribe name conundrum

Martin Holmes — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 05:29:58 -0700

One quick point:

xml:lang="ara"

should I think be:

xml:lang="ar"

according to the Guidelines, which follow BCP 47 in recommending the use
of two-letter values for language codes where they exist. "ar" is the
recommended value in the language subtag registry:

The same would apply to the longer value including the script information.

Cheers,
Martin

On 13-03-26 03:46 AM, Lou Burnard wrote:
> But if you do that, you are suggesting that the full name of this person
> is the Romanized script version concatanated with the arabic one, which
> is surely not true. (Of course sometimes a name [...]

Re: Scribe name conundrum

Lou Burnard — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:46:38 +0000

But if you do that, you are suggesting that the full name of this person
is the Romanized script version concatanated with the arabic one, which
is surely not true. (Of course sometimes a name *may* have a foreign
subcomponent but I don't think that's the case here)

I think if you have two ways of writing the name of a person, you have
to supply two s somehow. [...]

Re: Scribe name conundrum

yasmin faghihi — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:34:54 +0000

Dear Hannah

our practice with adding the original version of a name in a different
script/language in a place where you can not use the element,
like in your example, was to use within .
for example:

Ḥasan ibn ʻAlī ibn
Muḥammad al-Zarkashī xml:lang="ara">حسن بن علي بن محمد
الزركشي

Best
yasmin

On 25/03/2013 22:22, Tucker Hannah wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm working on a project using TEI-P5 to construct a database
> of Syriac manuscripts based on William Wright's /Catalogue of Syriac
> Manuscripts in the British Library/. We've encountered a conceptual
> [...]

Scribe name conundrum

Tucker Hannah — Mon, 25 Mar 2013 17:22:20 -0500

Hi All,

I'm working on a project using TEI-P5 to construct a database
of Syriac manuscripts based on William Wright's *Catalogue of Syriac
Manuscripts in the British Library*. We've encountered a conceptual
difficulty in trying to identify the scribes.

We need to indicate that two versions of a name (one in English and one in
Syriac) refer to the same scribe in the hand note. This is particularly
important to us because we want to later query the document to create a
list of names of scribes in English/Syriac parallel so that we can assign
URIs to them (most of [...]

New Chairs: Dot Porter and Gerrit Brüning

Pierazzo, Elena — Sun, 17 Mar 2013 19:19:37 +0000

Dear MS SIG list,

It is my great pleasure to communicate that this SIG has two new convenors: Dot Porter and Gerrit Brüning. A thank you on my personal and on behalf of the TEI for taking on this role, I'm sure they will do a great job!

All the best
Elena