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Hallo!
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:01:07 +0100, R A Brown wrote:
> Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> > Hallo!
> >
> [snip]
> >
> Yes. Glen Gordon calls it "Indo-Aegaean", earlier he
> [snip]
> >
> > And using "Aegaean" for the putative language family
> > Etruscan belongs to is in itself speculative.
>
> Speculative and probably misleading.
Indeed. So far, only the Lemnos stele seems to have anything
to do with Etruscan; beyond that and some ancient tales, there
is no evidence that Etruscan has anything to do with the Aegaean
area.
> > It is not
> > yet established that Etruscan originated in the Aegaean
> > (we already discussed the weakness of the Stele of Lemnos
> > argument), and there is no evidence that Minoan and
> > Eteocretan, or the elusive "Pelasgian" substratum
> > language of Greece, have anything to do with Etruscan!
>
> True. Some of the early would-be decipherers of Linear A
> looked towards Etruscan for possible clues. The unprejudiced
> found none. Nor have the very few Eteocretan inscriptions
> shown any resemblance to Etruscan. Both Minoan/Eteocretan
> (assuming the two are related, which is not certain) and
> Etruscan remain enigmas.
Indeed, we don't know whether Eteocretan was a descendant of
Minoan or not. It may well be that it entered Crete after the
Minoan era, perhaps as a part of the invasion of the "Sea
Peoples".
What regards these languages, we can only hope that more
evidence will be found. Perhaps there is a substantial
Eteocretan/Greek bilingual waiting to be unearthed somewhere
on Crete; and don't the ancients say that some Greek texts
have been translated into Etruscan? Perhaps we will eventually
find a codex containing the Etruscan translation of a known
Greek or Latin text - or even a grammar of Etruscan written by
a Roman scholar in Latin. But as for now, all these languages
are known too poorly to say anything about their relationships.
> ================================================
>
> David McCann wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > Basically, I don't expect to convince you, or Ray. I work
> > on the basis that all languages are ultimately related,
> > since we are all descended from one woman.
>
> I think this is likely to be so.
I think so, too, but that is not proven yet, and not really
useful in comparative linguistics, because it doesn't tell you
anything about the various *degrees* of relationship. Also,
this is the "Holy Grail" of historical linguistics, unattained
and perhaps unattainable, and it is not legitimate to say that
language X was related to language Y because "all languages are
related to each other". This is utterly meaningless.
> > I
> > don't compare Latin and Swahili, Greek and Malay (as poor
> > old Swadesh was prone to do)
>
> I was not suggesting that anyone did. I gave the examples
> only as cautionary warnings.
I think you were clear enough about that.
> > If
> > you want to conduct linguistics in a vacuum, or with
> > arbitrary methodological constraints,
>
> I have no wish to conduct linguistics in a vacuum nor to use
> _arbitrary_ methodological constraints.
As I have said in my reply on David's post, real-world comparative
linguistics is not conducted "in a vacuum", nor are its
methodological constraints "arbitrary".
> I'm sorry this thread has taken on a personal tone; I am
> just a wee bit weary at the emails I've had over the years
> from those who 'know' what Etruscan is connected with and
> cannot accept my cautious approach, which wants firm
> evidence. So I bow out now.
I think everything that was worth saying has been said anyway.
Nobody says that Etruscan cannot be related to anything else; it is
just that we don't know yet what it is related to. That is an
important difference.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
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Week 2 February 2002, Week 1 January 2002, Week 5 January 2002, Week 4 January 2002, Week 3 January 2002, Week 2 January 2002, Week 1 December 2001, Week 5 December 2001, Week 4 December 2001, Week 3 December 2001, Week 2 December 2001, Week 1 November 2001, Week 5 November 2001, Week 4 November 2001, Week 3 November 2001, Week 2 November 2001, Week 1 October 2001, Week 5 October 2001, Week 4 October 2001, Week 3 October 2001, Week 2 October 2001, Week 1 September 2001, Week 5 September 2001, Week 4 September 2001, Week 3 September 2001, Week 2 September 2001, Week 1 August 2001, Week 5 August 2001, Week 4 August 2001, Week 3 August 2001, Week 2 August 2001, Week 1 July 2001, Week 5 July 2001, Week 4 July 2001, Week 3 July 2001, Week 2 July 2001, Week 1 June 2001, Week 5 June 2001, Week 4 June 2001, Week 3 June 2001, Week 2 June 2001, Week 1 May 2001, Week 5 May 2001, Week 4 May 2001, Week 3 May 2001, Week 2 May 2001, Week 1 April 2001, Week 5 April 2001, Week 4 April 2001, Week 3 April 2001, Week 2 April 2001, Week 1 March 2001, Week 5 March 2001, Week 4 March 2001, Week 3 March 2001, Week 2 March 2001, Week 1 February 2001, Week 4 February 2001, Week 3 February 2001, Week 2 February 2001, Week 1 January 2001, Week 5 January 2001, Week 4 January 2001, Week 3 January 2001, Week 2 January 2001, Week 1 December 2000, Week 5 December 2000, Week 4 December 2000, Week 3 December 2000, Week 2 December 2000, Week 1 November 2000, Week 5 November 2000, Week 4 November 2000, Week 3 November 2000, Week 2 November 2000, Week 1 October 2000, Week 5 October 2000, Week 4 October 2000, Week 3 October 2000, Week 2 October 2000, Week 1 September 2000, Week 5 September 2000, Week 4 September 2000, Week 3 September 2000, Week 2 September 2000, Week 1 August 2000, Week 5 August 2000, Week 4 August 2000, Week 3 August 2000, Week 2 August 2000, Week 1 July 2000, Week 5 July 2000, Week 4 July 2000, Week 3 July 2000, Week 2 July 2000, Week 1 June 2000, Week 5 June 2000, Week 4 June 2000, Week 3 June 2000, Week 2 June 2000, Week 1 May 2000, Week 5 May 2000, Week 4 May 2000, Week 3 May 2000, Week 2 May 2000, Week 1 April 2000, Week 5 April 2000, Week 4 April 2000, Week 3 April 2000, Week 2 April 2000, Week 1 March 2000, Week 5 March 2000, Week 4 March 2000, Week 3 March 2000, Week 2 March 2000, Week 1 February 2000, Week 5 February 2000, Week 4 February 2000, Week 3 February 2000, Week 2 February 2000, Week 1 January 2000, Week 5 January 2000, Week 4 January 2000, Week 3 January 2000, Week 2 January 2000, Week 1 December 1999, Week 5 December 1999, Week 4 December 1999, Week 3 December 1999, Week 2 December 1999, Week 1 November 1999, Week 5 November 1999, Week 4 November 1999, Week 3 November 1999, Week 2 November 1999, Week 1 October 1999, Week 5 October 1999, Week 4 October 1999, Week 3 October 1999, Week 2 October 1999, Week 1 September 1999, Week 5 September 1999, Week 4 September 1999, Week 3 September 1999, Week 2 September 1999, Week 1 August 1999, Week 5 August 1999, Week 4 August 1999, Week 3 August 1999, Week 2 August 1999, Week 1 July 1999, Week 5 July 1999, Week 4 July 1999, Week 3 July 1999, Week 2 July 1999, Week 1 June 1999, Week 5 June 1999, Week 4 June 1999, Week 3 June 1999, Week 2 June 1999, Week 1 May 1999, Week 5 May 1999, Week 4 May 1999, Week 3 May 1999, Week 2 May 1999, Week 1 April 1999, Week 5 April 1999, Week 4 April 1999, Week 3 April 1999, Week 2 April 1999, Week 1 March 1999, Week 5 March 1999, Week 4 March 1999, Week 3 March 1999, Week 2 March 1999, Week 1 February 1999, Week 5 February 1999, Week 4 February 1999, Week 3 February 1999, Week 2 February 1999, Week 1 January 1999, Week 5 January 1999, Week 4 January 1999, Week 3 January 1999, Week 2 January 1999, Week 1 December 1998, Week 5 December 1998, Week 4 December 1998, Week 3 December 1998, Week 2 December 1998, Week 1 November 1998, Week 5 November 1998, Week 4 November 1998, Week 3 November 1998, Week 2 November 1998, Week 1 October 1998, Week 5 October 1998, Week 4 October 1998, Week 3 October 1998, Week 2 October 1998, Week 1 September 1998, Week 5 September 1998, Week 4 September 1998, Week 3
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