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Hallo conlangers!
On Wednesday 24 August 2011 09:24:28, R A Brown wrote:
> On 23/08/2011 23:54, Padraic Brown wrote:
> > --- On Tue, 8/23/11, R A Brown<[log in to unmask]>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> Ah - found it. It dates from January, 1953! I find I
> >> still have a copy of the pronunciation, an outline
> >> grammar and a few vocabulary items including, of
> >> course, numbers 1-10, as well 1K and 1M.
> >>
> >> Despite the obviously Volapük influenced name, it
> >> appears to be essentially mutilated Esperanto -
> >> including parts-of-speech marks (more or less the
> >> same), accusative case, adjectival agreement etc. The
> >> horrible circumflexed consonants are there as well as
> >> þ and ð (I had, however, got rid of ĥ)!
> >>
> >> Ach-y-fi! The language is not worth preserving. It's
> >> a horrid piece of juvenalia.
> >
> > Nonsense! These early, and very frequently lost, conlang
> > sketches are well worth preserving. If for no other
> > reason than that they serve as a testimony to how one
> > has progressed in one's art.
>
> It would be a far better testimony if it could have been put
> in context with later and, indeed, earlier conlangs. Some
> of my teenage efforts were much more interesting. There
> was one - still an auxlang - called Ejl that was influenced
> by Tamil (the natlang I was studying at the time), and there
> was an artlang, Venusian, that was heavily influenced by
> Hungarian and Turkish. But these are both lost - almost
> certainly for ever - but they would have been a good deal
> more interesting than a mutilated Esperanto.
Those two lost conlangs would indeed have been more "interesting"
than Voldapeko, apparently. I can understand that you deplore
their loss.
> > Can also get a chuckle at the way one used to look at
> > the world of language -- early influences, assumptions
> > about language, etc.
>
> I would love to be able to recover examples of early
> influence. The only discernible influence in the one I
> found was Esperanto - not very exciting.
Indeed.
> > I mean, if you found a kindergarten fingerpaint project
> > done by Picasso, would you throw it away saying it was
> > just a horrid piece of juvenalia?
>
> I would put it on eBay.
It would probably sell well, and for a good price ;)
> > I wish I still had some of the early alphabets I used to
> > draw. Mostly fancified Greek and not terribly inspiring
> > perhaps, but certainly some of the first sparks that
> > would eventually conflagrate into this odd passtime of
> > ours.
>
> Ah - now I _do_ have several examples of early con-alphabets
> and of English spelling reforms :)
>
> It's the actual conlangs which are now, alas, lost. It's
> frustrating that the only one I've recovered is so
> uninventive. :(
>
> But it did have one use - after explaining to Janko that
> Eteocretan was not a conlang,
A few months ago, we discussed conlangs mistaken for obscure
natlangs - so it also works the other way; not as much
surprising as amusing.
> he kept asking for numbers
> from my conlangs, and Veldopeko came to the rescue. But IMO
> it has little other merit.
>
> > We should create a "my first conlang" category at Frath
> > so that we can all poke fun at our horrid bits of
> > juvenalia!
>
> My first conlang is well and truly lost. It predates my
> discovery of Esperanto. Essentially, it was the grammar of
> French which I discovered in one of my mother's old school
> text books and a vocabulary gleaned from the excellent
> etymologies given in a dictionary my grandparents had :)
My first attempt at conlanging was an auxlang (yuck!)
which I was to make together with my brother. (Yes, my
*brother*, the same guy who now so vitriolically rejects
any kind of conlanging!) All I remember was that we had
a noun gender system based on natural genders, with the
gender endings _-o_ (male), _-a_ (female) and _-u_
(neutral). AFAIK, we planned to use Latin roots, so we'd
get something like
_homu_ 'human being of either sex'
_homo_ 'male human being'
_homa_ 'female human being'
It never went beyond this.
My first actual conlang was when I was about 16 or so, that
was in the mid-80s. It was named "Serindian", and meant
for a corny space-opera science fiction conworld involving
ancient astronauts (yecch!). The language was pretty much
modelled on German and Latin, with a NGDA case system and
a have-perfect and all that. And a gender system similar
to that of the auxlang mentioned above.
The language had a daughter meant to be spoken about
12,000 years later, but it was as similar to its ancestor
as French is to Latin, and working in the same way: still
a NGDA case system, a have-perfect and all that. I had
no idea of regular sound change back then, so I haphazardly
altered the words, usually keeping the consonants intact
and reshuffling the vowels. It was named "Ardenorian".
At least, I had the idea of what I didn't know then that
it was called Suffixaufnahme, and used it either in Serindian
or in Ardenorian, don't remember.
All that went to the cleaners when I tossed the Dänikenesque
premise, but I think I still have an old notebook which
contains some Ardenorian words and I think also some noun
paradigms, I no longer know of which language.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Êm, a Êm atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Êmel." - SiM 1:1
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October 2002, Week 1 September 2002, Week 5 September 2002, Week 4 September 2002, Week 3 September 2002, Week 2 September 2002, Week 1 August 2002, Week 5 August 2002, Week 4 August 2002, Week 3 August 2002, Week 2 August 2002, Week 1 July 2002, Week 5 July 2002, Week 4 July 2002, Week 3 July 2002, Week 2 July 2002, Week 1 June 2002, Week 5 June 2002, Week 4 June 2002, Week 3 June 2002, Week 2 June 2002, Week 1 May 2002, Week 5 May 2002, Week 4 May 2002, Week 3 May 2002, Week 2 May 2002, Week 1 April 2002, Week 5 April 2002, Week 4 April 2002, Week 3 April 2002, Week 2 April 2002, Week 1 March 2002, Week 5 March 2002, Week 4 March 2002, Week 3 March 2002, Week 2 March 2002, Week 1 February 2002, Week 4 February 2002, Week 3 February 2002, Week 2 February 2002, Week 1 January 2002, Week 5 January 2002, Week 4 January 2002, Week 3 January 2002, Week 2 January 2002, Week 1 December 2001, Week 5 December 2001, Week 4 December 2001, Week 3 December 2001, Week 2 December 2001, Week 1 November 2001, Week 5 November 2001, Week 4 November 2001, Week 3 November 2001, Week 2 November 2001, Week 1 October 2001, Week 5 October 2001, Week 4 October 2001, Week 3 October 2001, Week 2 October 2001, Week 1 September 2001, Week 5 September 2001, Week 4 September 2001, Week 3 September 2001, Week 2 September 2001, Week 1 August 2001, Week 5 August 2001, Week 4 August 2001, Week 3 August 2001, Week 2 August 2001, Week 1 July 2001, Week 5 July 2001, Week 4 July 2001, Week 3 July 2001, Week 2 July 2001, Week 1 June 2001, Week 5 June 2001, Week 4 June 2001, Week 3 June 2001, Week 2 June 2001, Week 1 May 2001, Week 5 May 2001, Week 4 May 2001, Week 3 May 2001, Week 2 May 2001, Week 1 April 2001, Week 5 April 2001, Week 4 April 2001, Week 3 April 2001, Week 2 April 2001, Week 1 March 2001, Week 5 March 2001, Week 4 March 2001, Week 3 March 2001, Week 2 March 2001, Week 1 February 2001, Week 4 February 2001, Week 3 February 2001, Week 2 February 2001, Week 1 January 2001, Week 5 January 2001, Week 4 January 2001, Week 3 January 2001, Week 2 January 2001, Week 1 December 2000, Week 5 December 2000, Week 4 December 2000, Week 3 December 2000, Week 2 December 2000, Week 1 November 2000, Week 5 November 2000, Week 4 November 2000, Week 3 November 2000, Week 2 November 2000, Week 1 October 2000, Week 5 October 2000, Week 4 October 2000, Week 3 October 2000, Week 2 October 2000, Week 1 September 2000, Week 5 September 2000, Week 4 September 2000, Week 3 September 2000, Week 2 September 2000, Week 1 August 2000, Week 5 August 2000, Week 4 August 2000, Week 3 August 2000, Week 2 August 2000, Week 1 July 2000, Week 5 July 2000, Week 4 July 2000, Week 3 July 2000, Week 2 July 2000, Week 1 June 2000, Week 5 June 2000, Week 4 June 2000, Week 3 June 2000, Week 2 June 2000, Week 1 May 2000, Week 5 May 2000, Week 4 May 2000, Week 3 May 2000, Week 2 May 2000, Week 1 April 2000, Week 5 April 2000, Week 4 April 2000, Week 3 April 2000, Week 2 April 2000, Week 1 March 2000, Week 5 March 2000, Week 4 March 2000, Week 3 March 2000, Week 2 March 2000, Week 1 February 2000, Week 5 February 2000, Week 4 February 2000, Week 3 February 2000, Week 2 February 2000, Week 1 January 2000, Week 5 January 2000, Week 4 January 2000, Week 3 January 2000, Week 2 January 2000, Week 1 December 1999, Week 5 December 1999, Week 4 December 1999, Week 3 December 1999, Week 2 December 1999, Week 1 November 1999, Week 5 November 1999, Week 4 November 1999, Week 3 November 1999, Week 2 November 1999, Week 1 October 1999, Week 5 October 1999, Week 4 October 1999, Week 3 October 1999, Week 2 October 1999, Week 1 September 1999, Week 5 September 1999, Week 4 September 1999, Week 3 September 1999, Week 2 September 1999, Week 1 August 1999, Week 5 August 1999, Week 4 August 1999, Week 3 August 1999, Week 2 August 1999, Week 1 July 1999, Week 5 July 1999, Week 4 July 1999, Week 3 July 1999, Week 2 July 1999, Week 1 June 1999, Week 5 June 1999, Week 4 June 1999, Week 3 June 1999, Week 2 June 1999, Week 1 May 1999, Week 5 May 1999, Week 4 May 1999, Week 3 May 1999, Week 2 May 1999, Week 1 April 1999, Week 5 April 1999, Week 4 April 1999, Week 3 April 1999, Week 2 April 1999, Week 1 March 1999, Week 5 March 1999, Week 4 March 1999, Week 3 March 1999, Week 2 March 1999, Week 1 February 1999, Week 5 February 1999, Week 4 February 1999, Week 3 February 1999, Week 2 February 1999, Week 1 January 1999, Week 5 January 1999, Week 4 January 1999, Week 3 January 1999, Week 2 January 1999, Week 1 December 1998, Week 5 December 1998, Week 4 December 1998, Week 3 December 1998, Week 2 December 1998, Week 1 November 1998, Week 5 November 1998, Week 4 November 1998, Week 3 November 1998, Week 2 November 1998, Week 1 October 1998, Week 5 October 1998, Week 4 October 1998, Week 3 October 1998, Week 2 October 1998, Week 1 September 1998, Week 5 September 1998, Week 4 September 1998, Week 3
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