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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  October 2012, Week 2

CONLANG October 2012, Week 2

Subject:

Re: PIE dorsals (was: why don't velar...)

From:

Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 18:22:29 +0200

Content-Type:

Text/Plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

Text/Plain (52 lines)

Hallo conlangers!

On Friday 12 October 2012 22:28:33 Eric Christopherson wrote:

> [...]
> Jrg wrote:
> > My personal hypothesis is that several vowels collapsed into *a
> > in an earlier stage (in fact, all except *i and *u),
> 
> [...]
> 
> So you interpret the zero-grade *i *u as (at least sometimes) primary,
> rather than always reflecting a reduction of **ey **ew (or the like)?

Sort of.  I prefer to avoid the notion of a language that has only
one vowel phoneme.  So there'd be */i/ and */u/ besides */a/.

What happened IMHO was that there was a penultimate accent.
Under the accent, vowels were (slightly) lengthened, then *[i:]
and *[u:] diphthongized; *[a:] became /e/.  Short */i/ and */u/
remained what they were, while short */a/ was reduced and in most
instances lost.  Of course, the diphthongs */ai/ and */au/ could
also have existed in the trivocalic Pre-PIE; they would have
merged with */i/ and */u/, respectively.  (I think that roots of
the types *Cei- and *Ceu- without a closing consonant continue
such diphthongs.)

I know that this hypothesis alone does not cut it; there certainly
were other factors in play as well.  Jens Elmegrd Rasmussen has
done some work in this direction (J. E. Rasmussen, Is the Indo-
European lexical accent predictable?, in R. Lhr & S. Ziegler (eds.),
_Protolanguage and Prehistory.  Akten der XII. Fachtagung der
Indogermanischen Gesellschaft 2004.  Wiesbaden: Reichert 2009).
 
> > I call the change described above the "Great Vowel Collapse"
> > (GVC); this seems to have been preceded by a change I call
> > "Resonant Conditioned Lowering" (RCL), which means that *i
> > and *u were lowered before nasals, liquids, semivowels and
> > vowels in hiatus (explaining the lack of *CeiR and *CeuR
> > roots).
> 
> It's been a long time since I read about PIE. Is it the case that there are
> roots like *newn= (syllabic n) but not *newn (asyllabic n)?

*newn= is the commonly reconstructed form for the numeral '9';
*newn indeed does not seem to exist.

--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bsel asa am, a am atha cvanthal a cvanth atha amal." - SiM 1:1

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October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
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July 2006, Week 5
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July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
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May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
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February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
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January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
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August 2005, Week 1
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July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
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May 2005, Week 3
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April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
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February 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
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November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
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October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
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August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
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July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 3
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
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September 2003, Week 1
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August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 3
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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November 2001, Week 1
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October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
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September 2001, Week 3
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June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
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May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
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April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
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February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
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November 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 3
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
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November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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