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AUXLANG  April 2007, Week 1

AUXLANG April 2007, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Occidental in Bablo, postcard grammar, etc.

From:

"Donald J. HARLOW" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 1 Apr 2007 14:43:05 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (60 lines)

Je 09.13 atm 2007.04.01, Thomas ALEXANDER (kies nomon mi kun plezuro 
revidas cxi tie) skribis

>Bob wrote[1]:
> > All one needs to use Occidental is that "postcard"
> > grammar.  Everything else, frankly, is easily
> > learned by an example, or by learning vocabulary.
>
>Another point where I see other listmembers talking
>at cross-purposes with Bob is that he seems to use
>the word "grammar" differently from the way many
>others here mean it.  Until you agree about what that
>word means, you'll never agree about how many
>postcards are necessary to describe it.  Bob seems to
>use the term to mean mostly "grammatical endings."
>Who can argue with the claim that all the gramatical
>endings of Occidental can be written on a postcard?

Shoot, all the (eleven) grammatical endings of Esperanto can be 
written on a Chinese fortune cookie slip (at least, if you use both 
sides). (*) Admittedly, if you want to say what they mean you would 
need more space (maybe a 3x5 index card?

Todd Moody's comments (in another posting) on syntax are, however, 
well-taken, and so for a complete grammar all 
fortune-cookie-slip-3-x-5-card-postcard bets are off, for Esperanto 
as for Occidental.

Gilbert, in "Planlingvaj problemoj", gives a nice comparison table of 
the grammars of Occidental and Interlingua in three columns. 
Grammatical morphology takes up pages 78-89, but we can knock out 
about three-fifths of this, since it's devoted to Interlingua (2/5) 
and clarifying remarks (1/5); (**) so the actual morphology of 
Occidental takes up a bit less than five pages. *Pace* Todd, Gilbert 
devotes seven lines (full-page-width) to syntax of Occidental and 
Interlingua: one says that the standard word order is SVO, though OSV 
is permitted (the only example he gives, however, is one that you 
could easily find in English -- see e.g. Burroughs's "Tarzan of the 
Apes" for various examples -- where there's a pronoun that has a 
separate accusative form, thus allowing subject-object order to be 
changed in a non-confusing way), while the other simply points out 
that in Occidental you often have to use a preposition where a simple 
change in ending works in Esperanto. I suspect that there is more to 
Occidental (and Interlingua) syntax than this ...

---

(*) I am still waiting, however, to crack open a Chinese fortune 
cookie and find a slip that reads "All nouns end in -O".

(**) Add perhaps a page or two, since many of the remarks in the 
"remarks" column relate to Occidental, e.g. the one about the infinitives.


-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html
Opinions (in English): http://www.harlows.org/don/opinions/
Esperanto (in English): http://www.harlows.org/don/esperanto/
Literaturo (Esperante): http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/Literaturo

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December 2000, Week 3
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December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
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November 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 1
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April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
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February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
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February 1998, Week 1
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January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
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October 1997, Week 4
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