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AUXLANG  June 2014, Week 2

AUXLANG June 2014, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Speakable Programming for Every Language IAL

From:

Logan Streondj <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 14 Jun 2014 22:06:04 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (97 lines)

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 14:57:17 +0400
Gleki Arxokuna <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> 2014-06-14 14:42 GMT+04:00 Logan Streondj <[log in to unmask]>:
> 
> > On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 08:04:11 +0400
> > Gleki Arxokuna <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > 2014-06-14 8:00 GMT+04:00 Logan Streondj <[log in to unmask]>:
> > >
> > > > Also it has some similarities to Lojban which was a major inspiration
> > for
> > > > it,
> > > > though unlike Lojban is supports linguistic-univerals and case-grammar.
> > > > Lojban itself isn't really a human language, it's a code.
> > > >
> > >
> > > i li'asai mi na tugni u'i i mi'a ru'i tavla fo lo jbobau i ji'a la robin
> > > noi lojbo nolraitru cu ctuca lo banjubu'o lo vo'a tixnu
> >
> > Sorry, didn't mean to get you upset.
> > I'm happy you're teaching your daughter another language.
> >
> 
> No, not me but Robin, one of Lojbanists teaches his daughters Lojban.
> 
> >
> > It's just the fact that it lacks a case grammar,
> > makes it nearly impossible to translate into.
> >
> 
> It does have case grammar. Probably you mean something like Fillmore's
> semantic cases

I actually meant to say "Grammatical case". 
I'm not sure he had much to do with it.

> or what is called  N-paradigm in Loglan.

hmm, yes that is the primitive beginings of a grammatical cases. 
If Lojban had support for at least the full complement of grammatical cases in Proto-Indo-European,
then it would be possible to translate most languages to  it.

> 
> Unfortunately they are highly metaphoric and can't reflect metaphorical
> concepts of all languages since each language (or at least language family)
> is unique in its metaphors.

Perhaps it may be pertinent to Fillmore, I'm not really familiar with his work.
If you refer to grammatical-cases it is a straw-man fallacy.

Grammatical cases are very clearly defined,
 and reflect the grammatical function performed by a noun or pronoun.
here is a list of various grammatical cases found in a variety of langauges http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammatical_cases

> 
> Thus I deny the existence of such "cases" as "subject" and "object" since
> they more refer to topicalization, focus or emphasis rather than to the
> meaning behind the verbs.

Topicalization, focus, and "emphasis" are irrelevant to the subject of case grammars, er grammatical-cases.
After reviewing "case grammar" as defined on wikipedia, it is a method of analysis, rather than a part of a sentence.

Topic and focus are different grammatical categories. 
Topicalization is when a noun-phrase is fronted for emphasis. 


> 
> I can support Japanese (Eurasiatic), Chinese (Sino-tibetan), Thai(Austric)
> > and Arabic (Afroasiatic).
> > However Lojban lacks the required structures to make it possible.
> > Even zero-marking Vietnamese and Indonesian has case-words (to, for, by,
> > from).
> > I've attempted to have the Lojban community fix this lack,
> > however it is of no use, they told me words can't be added.
> > Really it would require a major overhaul, as instead of x1, x2, x3, x4
> > they would have to be the cases:  subject, object, of, to
> >
> > Though yes Lojban has some great ideas, and I'm salvaging what I can.
> > Indeed if it wasn't for Lojban this project might not be possible.
> > For instance I've borrowed the zoi quotes, and attitudinals.
> > Also the orthology is similar, though more precise.
> >
> > mkaw: ci sal papm ci cui .a yam .i pa
> > spel: quo hello world quo te bo say be do
> > SVO spel: do be say bo te quo hello world quo
> > BASIC: print "hello world"
> >
> >
> > --
> > Logan Streondj <[log in to unmask]>
> >


-- 
Logan Streondj <[log in to unmask]>

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