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CONLANG  June 2015, Week 1

CONLANG June 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Romlangs ((was:: Bogolangs, again)

From:

Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 2 Jun 2015 17:29:27 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (100 lines)

Hallo conlangers!

On 02.06.2015 09:06, R A Brown wrote:

> On 01/06/2015 19:43, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
>> Hallo conlangers!
[...]
>> http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/farewell-to-romlangs.html
>
> Oh dear, I see it says:
> "To be plausible, [Germanech] could not have been anything
> else than a Standard Average European language, and such
> languages are overdone. I simply could not motivate myself
> to carry on with this uninteresting language."

I have to say two things about my article.  First, it just relates my 
personal experience with Germanech and romlangs in general, and is 
accordingly *subjective*.  Second, it was written *before* you came up 
with your Britainese project, which turned out to be more interesting 
than I expected an SAE romlang project to be.

Indeed, "SAE" doesn't mean that the language has to be "uninteresting".  
It is just a (poorly-defined!) bundle of linguistic features that do not 
rule out that something beautiful and interesting happens in the 
language.  For instance, with my current Hesperic language family 
project, I have some of the languages been "drawn into" the SAE language 
area, starting with something typologically more akin to Hittite and 
Georgian, and preserved in purer form in Old Albic.

>>> I am trying, painfully slowly, to derive a (hopefully)
>>>  plausible British Romlang.
>
> To be plausible, Britainese will be a SAE language. Maybe
> that is why progress is slow.  It is not exactly the
> greatest motivation    :)

Sure.  One must also distinguish between the *process* and the *end 
product*.  Once done, Britainese will probably look like "yet another 
Romance language" that doesn't do many "interesting" things.  But the 
process by which you approach it is very thoughtful and worth watching.

> I cannot argue with what you say about Germanech itself.
> Certainly simply grafting the sound changes of one language
> onto another different language is artificial and to a
> lesser or greater degree must be a botched job.

Actually, there are a few things about Germanech I like, and I don't 
consider it an entirely botched job.  Yet, I am not really satisfied 
with what came out of it, and feel little desire to carry on with it.  
At least, it was a good practical exercise, though of "beginner level" 
perhaps, in diachronic conlanging, and I learned some things from it 
which I could apply to later, more mature projects.

> I am not sure I go along with "... there simply is no way to
> do [Romlangs] well."  Sure, the production of Romlangs _far_
> exceeds demand and many are IMO poorly done.  But
> that does not per_se mean someone cannot do the thing well.

Point taken.  As I have said above, I did not foresee the way you would 
take the challenge of a British Romance language when I wrote my article.

> The section "The more interesting, the less plausible" is
> IMO largely true.  A Roman merchant ship blown off course
> onto the shores of the American continent where a Romlang
> then took root may be fun, but one should not pretend it's
> plausible.  IMO some spoil the fun element of "weird
> Romlangs" by trying to maintain the thing is plausible.

Fine.  Strange things happen in the real world, for sure; yet, most 
romlangs I have seen either do not do anything remarkable, are based on 
questionable methodology (usually, bogolangs), or require an unlikely 
chain of events to unfold.  Bretainese is likely to fall into the first 
category, but it is the process that is interesting here, while in my 
article, I looked at end products.

> Maybe by aiming at plausibility with Britainese, I'm missing
> out on the fun.  That is possibly true.
>
> So if Romlangs are not among the "many interesting and
> edifying things a conlanger can do", why carry on with
> Britainese?  A fair question. The only answer I can give
> is that on the introductory page to Britainese:
> "The project is to create an altlang, i.e. a language of an
> alternate history. It is the result of discussion that took
> place on the "On Creating Altlangs" thread on the Conlang
> list in February 2013, and of private exchange of emails
> following that thread, I was persuaded to begin this project."
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/BART/index.html
>
> Having begun it, I feel obliged to finish even tho 'twill
> inevitably be a SAE.

Sure!  Carry on!  It would be a pity if your considerations were to lead 
to nothing.

--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1

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