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CONLANG  March 2014, Week 3

CONLANG March 2014, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Talmit: dictionary of phrasal compounds

From:

Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:21:10 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (153 lines)

On 17 March 2014 03:24, Roman Rausch <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> There is a nice book which is a treasure to all students of Japanese in
> particular, but could also be of interest to conlangers in general. It is
> called 'Handbook of Japanese Compound Verbs' (Yoshiko Tagashira and Jean
> Hoff; Hokuseido Press).
>

Sounds like a great book! COuld be a good addition to the LCS lending
library!


> Compound verbs are just that, compounds of two verbs, but for some reason
> don't really exist in Indo-European.


Well, not in Western Indo-European languages, but they are common in Hindi
and other Indo-Aryan languages. They are also found in Modern Greek, but
are somewhat restricted in their form and use.


> In Japanese they range from literal (_tataki-kowasu_ 'hit-break = tear
> down, shatter') to abstracted (_yomi-ageru_ 'read-raise = 'read aloud'),
> idiomatic (_oshi-kakeru_ 'push-hang = intrude, visit without invitation')
> and culturally peculiar (_tati-yomi_ 'stand-read = read in a bookstore
> without buying', only in nominalized form).
>

That last one would make a nice addition to French, where that phenomenon
is common as well :).


> As you can see, they offer a great wealth of semantic finesse and
> scrumptiousness, potentially helpful and inspiring for one's own language.
>
>
Indeed :). And because of this inspiration, my own Moten has compound verbs
as well. They are really fun to work with. Two somewhat idiomatic examples
are _jaguba|si_, literally "to come and go", which can mean "to come and
go" (indeed!), "to move back and forth" and "to be nervous", and
_ipenlabutaj_, literally: "to sit and wait for", which can have this
meaning (referring for instance to waiting in a doctor's waiting room) but
generally means "to be patient with". Plenty of compounds with _istu|l_:
"to call, to summon" as the second (light) element have a verb as first
element as well, like _ipe|lastu|l_: "to show" (literally "to summon and
see") or _ipenlastu|l_: "to invite" (literally "to summon and wait").


> The mentioned book is a dictionary of 200 selected compound verbs, but it
> is also a paragon of presenting such material. For example, the first entry
> is _abakidasu_ 'dig up some criminal or confidential matter and expose it
> to the world'.
>
> The dictionary begins with giving the constituents:
> V1 _abaku_ 'expose some criminal or confidential matter'
>

That is one heck of a specific meaning for such a short stem! My dictionary
says it means "to disclose, to divulge, to expose" in general, which feels
more like it :).


> V2 _dasu_ 'take out, reveal'
> It classifies the compounds into types, this one is 'means-goal'.
>
> Then it comments on restrictions of usage:
> - a digging-up process has to be involved
> - there is an adverse effect on the target person
> - not used for physical objects
> - the exposure is public
>
> Finally, it lists several example sentences with the word, one being:
> _Imasara kako no koto wo abakidasatte shikata ga nai._
> 'It's no use raking up the past at this late date.'
>
> But also at least one incorrect example, if it is helpful:
> _**Omae ga kako ni mafia to kankei ga atta koto wo masukomi ni abakidasu
> zo!_
> 'We'll tell the media that you had connections with the Mafia in the past!'
> This is not correct because no digging is involved, one has to use
> _barasu_.
>
>
Interesting...


> Inspired by this book, I've been working on a similar dictionary for a
> similar semantically complex construct in my language Talmit (
> http://sindanoorie.net/glp.html), which I call 'phrasal compounds'. So I
> hereby present to you the Talmit dictionary of phrasal compounds:
> http://sindanoorie.net/glp/phcomp.html
>
> Such compounds consist out of two monosyllabic lexical items joined by a
> grammatical element. The grammatical element can be a case postposition:
> - accusative _nu_: _tánugi_ 'thing-ACC-see' = 'to inspect, check whether
> sth. or so. is really there', _pánugi_ 'state-ACC-see' = 'to inspect, check
> the state of affairs'
> - genitive _mo_: _gámmoka_ 'nose-GEN-flat.area' = 'area between the nose
> and the upper lip'
> - dative _ma_: _dématal_ 'deed-DAT-word' = 'rule, law'
> - instrumental _za_: _mázagi_ 'eye-INSTR-see' = 'obvious, apparent;
> eyewitness'
> - themative _la_: _tállado_ 'word-concerning-ask' = 'ask for permission or
> to loan something'
> - nominative _ja_: _páhjamut_ 'shoe-NOM-nothing' = 'barefoot'
>
> It can also be the conjunctional suffix _-ra_ 'and' or _-se_ 'and,
> interacting with':
> - _básseba_ 'leg-with-leg' = 'gait; conduct, behaviour', _gíssepun_
> 'eye-with-finger' = 'skill', _áxeat_ 'one-and-one' = 'one by one, one at a
> time'
> - _dáhraba_ 'stone-and-leg' = 'measurement' (weight and length), _bórabno_
> 'mouth-and-mouth' = 'uproar'
>
> Finally, it can be _-ru_ which is adverbial, or participial after verbs.
> If the verb is repeated, this has iterative or intensifying meaning:
> - _árupsar_ 'good-ADV-rub' = 'warm up by friction', _írugi_ 'bad-ADV-look'
> = 'evil spell, curse'
> - _gíruga_ 'see-PART-go' = 'scout, spy', _dérode_ 'do-PART-do' = 'drive,
> thirst of action'
> As one can see, verbs joined like that are basically verbal compounds. But
> the second lexical item does not have to be a verb:
> - _gírumui_ 'see-PART-NEG' = 'invisible', _kézrumui_ 'pierce-PART-NEG' =
> 'invincible, not able to be pierced; inconceivable, difficult to get a
> grasp of', _írutru_ 'bad-ADV-inside' = 'non-edible'
>
>
That last one is a great idiomatic compound! I might just steal it for
Moten! :P


> Anyway, these are just some examples, there are currently 137 words in the
> list. In a perfect world world I would also add positive, and, where
> appropriate, negative example sentences to all the entries, but as of now
> you'll find that part rather sparse. It will hopefully grow with time.
> The entries are cross-linked with the etymological dictionary (
> http://sindanoorie.net/glp/etym.html).
> The etymological dictionary has received an improvement as well, it now
> has a search mask which filters the table, and a clickable list of roots.
> Sound-symbolic roots which yield lexical items are also cross-linked.
>
> Comments are appreciated. Also, stay tuned for further updates.
>

It's indeed a great way to present compounds, especially given how they
work in Talmit. Are those the only kinds of compounds you have in the
language, or can you just put stems together without a joining element?
-- 
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
President of the Language Creation Society (http://conlang.org/)

Personal Website: http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/

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March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
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November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 1
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June 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
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March 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 3
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 3
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December 2004, Week 1
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November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
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October 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
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June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 3
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
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April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
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September 2001, Week 3
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July 2001, Week 5
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July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
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February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 5
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March 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
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November 1999, Week 3
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November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 1
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
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November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 3

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