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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  March 1999, Week 2

CONLANG March 1999, Week 2

Subject:

Re: More Comments on Chleweyish

From:

Carlos Thompson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:20:30 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (203 lines)

Jim Grossmann wrote:

> -----------------------------
> Not yet decided... I've used in the expression:
> Doy a gar doyey a cemel ...
> I perfect believe-indicative I-nom+you-acc perfect see-qsub
> I've believed to see you.
>
> JimG -- Would "I've thought I've seen you" be a freer translation?

This is a literal translation from Chleweyish into English.

> Also, how come you translate quasi-subjunctive as an infinitive?

but the original where a translation from Spanish.  There is another way =
it can
be translated into Chleweyish:
Doyey a cemel gar.

> -------------------------------------
> If the indicative had been used, would mean that "I've believed, and I =
know
> that
> I see you", that it was not only a perception but also a reality.  With=
 this
> quasi-subjunctive means that it was not real, just a perception.
>
> JimG -- Could this quasi subjunctive be applied to actions or states in=
 the
> present?    After all, remember that we usually tell appearence from
> perception in hindsight, unless we know the difference in advance, as w=
ith a
> movie or an optical illusion.

Used in the present (not perfect) would mean that you can only ensure the=

perception and you have no clue if it is real, used in the past, it would=
 mean
that is a perception and either you know is not true or you don't know ye=
t.

> ------------------------------------
> Particles will alway be infront of the word they modify, [snip]
>
> ....but actually word order is as free
> as the meaning is not lost.
>
> JimG -- Waitaminute.   Do particles always go in front of words or not?=


In normal speech they always do.  But poetic licenses may allow to move i=
t.

> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Space (where the action takes place) and time (when the action takes pl=
ace)
> could be a phrase, a noun or an adverb...  I guess I could answer bette=
r
> with
> examples (or being corrected in my terminology) when the language grows=
=2E
>
> JimG -- Okay.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Usually is what the verb and the knowlege of the speaker/listener dicta=
tes.
>
> Chl-  Carlos Beatr=EDz lombe
> Gls-  Carlos Beatriz love-ind
> Eng-  Carlos and Beatriz love eachother.
>
> JimG -- I think you're going to have to mark your core relationships mo=
st of
> the time.   For instance, how would you differentiate these questions?
>
> Does Carlos love Beatr=EDz?

Carlos lombe quo Beatr=EDz va?

> Does Beatr=EDz love Carlos?

Beatr=EDz lombe quo Carlos va?

> Do Carlos and Beatr=EDz love each other?

Carlos Beatr=EDz omi lombe va?

> Do Carlos and Beatr=EDz love themselves?

Carlos lombe Beatriz lombe va?

Actually if you want to be clear, or in normal situations you would use a=
ny of
the above.  (Drop the "va?" to make it affirmative)  "Carlos Beatr=EDz lo=
mbe"
should not be used in normal situations but IS legal.  When used would be=

understood that they love each other..

> -----------------------------------------------
>
> Chl-  Wambo robito drupe
> Gls-  cat mouse kill-ind
> Eng- The cat killed the/a mouse
>
> Chl-  Robito wambo drupe
> Gls-  mouse cat kill-ind
> Eng-  The cat killed the/a mouse
>
> Chl-  Robito drupe quo wambo
> Gls-  mouse kill-ind who? cat
> Eng- The mouse killed the cat.
>
> After all, it is suposed that cats kill mouses, the word order can be f=
ree
> if it is the
> cat who killed the mouse.  Anyhow it is prefered to say: "wambo drupe q=
uo
> robito" or "robito can wambo drupe".  ("can" means "what happend?")
>
> JimG -- I think your use of "who?" in the same slot as "cat" is an
> interesting way to mark the object.
>
> But I still think that your unmarked subject/object according to contex=
t
> would slow the listener/reader's ability to process messages in your
> language.
>
> Also, my guess is that more cases than not would require clear marking =
of
> the core-relationships (who did what to whom).
>
> "Cat" and "mouse" with "kill" may be clear, but what about other verbs?=

>
> cat mouse see
> cat mouse hear
> cat mouse bite
> cat mouse scratch
> cat mouse like
>
> Also, what about negation?
> How would context clarify the following?
>
> cat mouse not kill
>
> Also, how about nouns that stand for evenly matched entities?
>
> Bob  Ted kill
> bear  lion kill
> Northerners Southerners kill
>
> I don't think it's wise to count on context to resolve core-relationshi=
p
> (who does what to whom) ambiguities.
>
> With your use of question words in the object-slot, you've got a possib=
le
> way to mark the object that A. WORKS and B. MAY BE UNIQUE.
>
> As a member of your audience, I hope that you depend less on context an=
d
> develop your question-word marker system.

The question word marker system IS the preffered way, inlcuding the "can"=

conector.  The point is that NNV and NVN are valid constructions, even if=
 not
prefered, and semantics, not grammar, should tell if it is SOV, OSV.

BTW, if your audience don't know that cats kill mouses and you want to te=
ll that
you could say:
  wambon drupe quo robiton.
  robiton dumpe agu wambon
  robiton can wambon drupe
  wambon, robiton dumpe agu yor

agu /'a:GU/ - by who?
yor /ZO@/ - pronoun marking previous subject.

(BTW, what are the correct ASCII-IPA for voiced and voiceless palatal
fricatives, as longer as I know /S/ and /Z/ are for postalveolar).

--
                                      o_o
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dw=3D=3D=3Dw=3D=3D=3D=3D#######
   Chlewey Thompin                              ## ####
   http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/9028/     ## ## ##
------------------------------------------------##-## ##
                                                       ###
   - Cay yu?
   - Xeno rem cay
   - Xeno quit?  Xeno fune cay.
   - Xeno rechiye.  Zot xeno lolle.  Xeno zompe, chir=E1.  Zot xeno cay, =
partu
un=ED.
    (-- Grayville 2)

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January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
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May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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