On Friday, October 26, 2001, at 05:02 , Henrik Theiling wrote:
(Christophe, a question for you or other native French speakers is buried
under "yna," below...)
> Yoon Ha Lee <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>> cevan [tSevan]: "happiness" (the most general form)
>> related substantives:
>> icevan [itSevan]: "joy, happiness"
>> ycevan [i"tSevan]: "hope"
>> acevan [atSevan]: "contentment, fulfillment"
>> ferun [pferun]: "search"
>> related substantives
>> iferun [ipferun]: "invention, creation"
>> yferun [i"pferun]: "search, quest"
>> aferun [apferun]: "finding, discovery"
> Nice! Is the mechanism of prefixing i-, y- and a- totally regular?
> If so, what are the functions of these affixes?
Yes--well, not totally regular, but pretty darn close. I came up with an
irregularity in the pronoun system:
na [na]: "pronoun"
nia [nia]: 1st person
yna [i"na]: impersonal or uncertain pronoun
na [na]: personal or certain pronoun
This is related in idea to the personal vs. impersonal distinction in
Czevraqis, though Czevraqis is nicer and only makes that distinction in
the 3rd person; it has perfectly normal 1st and 2nd person pronouns (other
than some irregular case forms). Tasratal gloms the 2nd and 3rd persons
- could be used as "who?"
- to address someone you're not familiar with (but not quite as obviously
rude as "hey, you over there...")
- to refer to "peripheral" objects or events that come up in the course of
- to refer to people who aren't present (mostly equivalent to 3rd person,
if you're giving generic directions, say in a cookbook or something, it
be translated as a 2nd person--I think of this as similar to the French
of the infinitive-as-imperative, if I remember correctly--Christophe?)
na (the non-generic form):
- to address someone you know
- often to address people who are present
- to refer to people who aren't present but who are the focus of
or about whom the speaker feels/thinks strongly
- to give directions to specific people
I know, it's horrendously fuzzy, but in a lot of ways this is a fuzzy
Okay, to answer your question at last:
Substantives have a "generic" form, e.g. <ferun> [pferun] or <cevan>
[tSevan]. You might consider it the superset of the specific forms.
The three specific forms are derived by adding a prefix:
i(l) ([i] before a consonant, [il] before a vowel): demand/discovery form
y(l) ([i"] before a consonant, [i"l] before a vowel):
a(l) ([a] before a consonant, [al] before a vowel): status quo/state form
Again, horrendously fuzzy. I use the symbols
to guide the semantics. Hence, for <ferun> it becomes
! invent, create
? search, quest
. find, discovery
(I haven't been consistent in keeping the English definitions all nouns,
but since you can verb-ize these nouns using the causative particles, I
figure it's no big deal.)
> I'm still on my quest for particles in Tyl-Sjok for forming nice
> derivations of stems I already have.
:-) I'm sure it will be quite a fruitful and interesting quest! Tasratal
being pretty new, I think it has a total of less than 10 existing
substantives (content as opposed to function words, I guess). Let us know
what you come up with, ja?