LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CONLANG Archives


CONLANG Archives

CONLANG Archives


CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  January 2000, Week 4

CONLANG January 2000, Week 4

Subject:

Re: k(w)->p

From:

Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:18:12 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (39 lines)

At 11:13 am -0600 26/1/00, Matt Pearson wrote:
>Nik Taylor wrote:
>
>>/kp/ --> /kw/, on the other hand, I find hard to picture.  Epenthetic
>>vowel /k@p/ or simplification (/k/ or /p/), or even a click /p!/ I find
>>reasonable descendents of /kp/, but not /kw/.
>
>If /kp/ and /kw/ are consonant clusters, then the change from the
>former to the latter may not be that plausible (although /p/ -> /w/
>is found in some languages).  However, if /kp/ is a doubly-articulated
>stop and /kw/ is a labialised velar stop - i.e., if both are treated as
>single segments - then the change seems entirely plausible to me.

And to me also.  I don't see the difficulty.

Clearly V.Latin 'quattro' (Classical: quattuor) _did_ become 'patru' in
Romanian, and 'lingua' did become [log in to unmask]

The theory of intermediate fricativation ( /kwattro/  -> */xwatro/ -->
*/Watru/ */p\atru/ --> /patru/ and, presumably, /liNgwa/ --> */liNGwa/ -->
*/linW@/ --> */limb\@/ --> /limb@/) is not merely unsupported by any
external evidence but is IMHO just too fantastical for words.  The change
/k_w/ --> /p/ and /g_w/ --> /b/ is what the evidence suggests and I
personally see no problem.

What is conventially written as /kw/ is not here /k/ + /w/ but, as Matt
says, a _labialized_ velar stop, a _single_ segment.  Likewise Latin -gu-
(found only after -n-) was almost certainly a labialized voiced velar stop.

Ray.



=========================================
A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
=========================================

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Error during command authentication.

Error - unable to initiate communication with LISTSERV (errno=111). The server is probably not started.

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager