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AUXLANG  May 2000, Week 2

AUXLANG May 2000, Week 2

Subject:

Re: IAL Workshop

From:

Roy McCoy <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 11 May 2000 02:20:12 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (99 lines)

Donald J. HARLOW skribis:

> Oh, I don't disagree with you on that; you have 106 years of history
> supporting that probability [that discussion of Esperanto reform will not
> peter out]. Of course, the same 106 years has something to suggest about
> whether it will produce anything of practical utility...

I'm glad Mike Ferris addressed the issue of the alleged practicality of
Esperanto, as he described the situation well and thus relieved me of
having to do it myself. I will add a comment, however, on the commonly
expressed fundamentalist attitude that the Hodlerian UEA people are the
only practical Esperantists in existence, and that they are entitled to
look down with disdain on the misdirected "teoriemuloj" who waste their
time and threaten to discredit the movement with their vain discussions
of how to perfect Esperanto, which is already perfectly good enough the
way it is, a perfect language doesn't exist, la lingvo ne gravas anyway,
etc. It's a perfectly silly misrepresentation considering the main pre-
occupation of these "teoriemuloj" has been the purely practical matter
of making it possible for everyone to produce text in the language
without an inordinate amount of trouble, but it's amazing how satisfied
they are with this argument and how much mileage they get out of it.

There's a lot of largely self-conscious "blufado" within the movement
about the practical utility of the language, but what I think is in the
back of their minds is the practical utility that it *would* have if
everybody would just shut up and get on the bandwagon. I can very readily
admit that whatever screwed-up features Esperanto should have gotten rid
of but never has, there is still something eminently practical in having
a fixed proposal prepared for the world's general consideration. But I
sincerely believe that a well-guided discussion can at this point in
history lead to something yet more practical: an effectively improved
Esperanto that everyone *agrees* is effectively improved. Postal circulars
were never a satisfactory medium by which to achieve this - but the
Internet is a new ballgame, Don, and you ain't seen nothing yet.


Ken Caviness skribis:

> It would be fascinating to see a language which presents no difficulties
> for anyone.

Atiljo Orellana Rojas, a nomadic Esperanto teacher currently well known
in the Esperanto community, came to my room today and asked me to scan a
couple of photos for him. My computer was tied up with some operation,
and while we waited for it to finish I asked him if he had read the things
Joachim Werdin, an earlier travelling teacher, had written and published
about the need to change Esperanto in order to make it easier for Asians.
I was somehow suspiciously expecting something hypocritical or whatever,
but Atiljo totally surprised me. He immediately came back with the comment
that that's what anyone who has gone to Asia has later said, isn't it?
Well, I didn't know, actually. So he started talking about what one teacher
had said who had taught Esperanto in Korea, and then he went on to talk
about his own experience relating to this in Japan. Both of us seemed to
be appreciative of the serious difficulties in changing anything for the
better, and neither of us seemed to have any set answers - but it was so
refreshing for a change to hear someone who had a genuine appreciation
of the problem, and didn't just spout some propagandistic crap about
Esperanto's not being a European language because Claude Piron says so,
or whatever. In any event, I think both Atiljo and I are with you on
uj's not being a particularly serious problem for Esperanto as a world
language.


Mike Ferris skribis:

> I agree, the whole "reform" idea is pretty silly (how does one go
> about it?)

For me the question isn't so much how (I think I have a pretty good idea
generally, though technical details are lacking) as whether. I remember
a comment in something I read once about the discouragement that must set
in when the isolated reformist realizes that no one is ever going to pay
him to continue working on his reform project, and I'm sure that's
generally happened. But there's less envelope-licking on the Internet -
and a LOT more people. I'm sure you're going to see people coming together
to work on this, and some of them successfully.

> I think the one thing that we can all agree on is that UEA does a poor
> job of whatever it's supposed to be doing. (You'd think the people in
> charge would realize it's in their interest to have as many members as
> possible, you'd be mistaken apparently).

Whatever it's supposed to be doing (other than the monthly magazine,
yearbook, Universala Kongreso, etc.). The talk in the office today was
about the Canadian Esperanto association's having thrown someone out
because he was a racist and published something that said white people
were superior, that indigenous people got what they deserved, things
like that. I was the only staffer there who agreed with Giorgio Silfer
(whose article on this in "Heroldo" was being discussed) that this kind
of ideological cleansing was not something that a "por-Esperanta"
association claiming political neutrality should necessarily be doing.
But everybody else was going along with it. He's a RACIST. That's BAD.
We're GOOD, and we can't have anybody like THAT associated with us.
We're for HOMAJ RAJTOJ!!! (Like free speech and the right of dissent,
huh.)


Roy McCoy

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