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AUXLANG  May 2000, Week 2

AUXLANG May 2000, Week 2

Subject:

Re: IAL Workshop

From:

maf <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Fri, 12 May 2000 17:50:31 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (64 lines)



Pierpaolo Bernardi wrote:

> [Sorry if this message is a duplicate.  Our mailserver is malfunctioning.]
>
> On Thu, 11 May 2000 [log in to unmask] wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 May 2000 18:39:50 +0200, Pierpaolo Bernardi
> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > >> "La idistoi ricevis sia bibliografio, chu iatempe ricevos na ghi la
> > >> esperantistoi?"
> > >
> > >In this way you transform the problem of parsing Esperanto from a trivial
> > >one to an AI-complete one.   Welcome in Messland.
> >
> > I have trouble imagining why someone would want to machine-parse Eo except
> > as part of a larger machine-translation project.
>
> There are a lot of things which benefit from machine parseability, even
> without semantic comprehension.  As an example, how do you think that
> modern dictionaries are made?  And the problem of parsing exists also for
> humans.
>
> > In that case, tagging
> > direct objects would be, not trivial perhaps, but child's play compared to
> > some of the other looming challenges.
>
> No.  It would be at the same level of difficulty of a full comprehension
> of the text.  Just to decide who is the subject and who is the object you
> should understand the full semantic content of the text.  A task which is
> difficult for *humans*.
>
> > Look, if it turns out that -N is not, on the whole, a serious obstacle to
> > prospective learners, then I have no real objection to it. I have the
> > impression that it is, that's all.
>
> Look, I am not contrary to languages which don't mark explicitly the
> accusative.  These languages, however, should have some other means of
> disambiguating sentence structure, for example, they usually have a fixed
> word order, SVO, or whatever.  What appears to you a simplifying change
> has the effect of ruining the whole thing.
>
> If you want to design a language which is like Esperanto, but with no
> accusative marking and obligatory SVO, that would be fine.  IMHO, it would
> be a language less expressive than Esperanto, but that's another matter.
>
> Let me do an example.  I have designed an improved version of English.  It
> is just like ordinary English, but SVO is not obligatory.  If the meaning
> is clear from the context you can use OVS, at your whim.  So in this
> language (let's call it English++) "the apple eats the boy" has the
> same meaning of "the boy eats the apple".  Cool, no?  In English++
> traditionalists can still use good ole classical English, while creative
> guys can rearrange sentences in any way they like, as long as this
> does not create ambiguities.  This would be a great simplification of
> English, as one does not need to bother remembering what's the @#^$%!
> correct order of words in sentences.
>
> What do you think about this design?    8-)))

Seems normal enough. It's certainly the way a lot of languages work.

Contrary to linguistic opinion from the 19th century

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December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
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February 2000, Week 1
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January 2000, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
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November 1997, Week 3
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November 1997, Week 1
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