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SCUBA-L  May 2000, Week 3

SCUBA-L May 2000, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Time for an RFD?

From:

"Robert F. Ling" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scuba diving discussion list <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 21 May 2000 19:06:11 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (173 lines)

Delayed reading of Scuba-L and my transit in returning from Cozumel
(Friday departure and weekend in Atlanta) enabled readers of Scuba-L
to have already responded properly and adequately to a remarkable
thread started by Hugh Huntzinger, while I was incommunicado:

>Date:         Wed, 17 May 2000 09:25:02 -0400
>Subject:      Time for an RFD?
>
>In reading this week's posts, unfortunately, it appears that the
>recent pattern of hostility and denigration of list members appears
>to be starting back up again.

Do you have anything SPECIFIC about any individuals or threads you
can point readers to judge for themselves before declaring yourself
chief prosecutor and judge of Scuba-L's "list police and kangaroo
court"? (a term appropriately suggested by Bjorn)

>I have consulted with Nick on this subject and there are some
>options available, including a few that are short of simply
>banning an identified offender from the list.

The available and viable options have been in place for YEARS!
See "The Natural live cycles of a Mailing list", first posted
circa 1993, and since then reappeared here and in numerous
other LISTS.

What is NOT VIABLE is your proposal of CENSORSHIP/BAN, out of the
whim of one or a few subscribers.  Wow, who are we trying to BAN
here?  Please use the ARCHIVES to point us to SPECIFIC charges of
yours.  For example, this format of reference is VERY EASY to use:

Refer to a particular THREAD or POST in particular MONTH and WEEK
of 2000 in   http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/scuba-l.html to
at least attempt to SUBSTANTIATE your allegations!

This is an EXAMPLE of HOW you can refer to the FULL THREAD and
FULL TEXTS from which postings in question can be seen IN CONTEXT.

-------------------------
   Go to May 2000, Week 3, thread "Time for RFD?" to the post

>Date:         Wed, 17 May 2000 20:37:23 -0800
>From:         Kent Lind <[log in to unmask]>

in which he wrote (excerpt):

Kent> Oh for Pete's sake.  I've never seen so much beating around
Kent> the bush.  Did I miss some recent flame war or are we whining
Kent> about Bob again?  I thought he was in Cozumel.

Specifically,

Kent> Cite some specific examples, tell him what you think directly,
Kent> or figure out how to filter your mail.

Here's another perfectly appropriate response/comment,

-------------------------
   Go to May 2000, Week 3, thread "Time for RFD?" to the post

>Date:         Thu, 18 May 2000 00:58:43 +0700
>From:         Bjorn Vang Jensen <[log in to unmask]>

BVJ>  < ... > on what constitutes "acceptable" behavior. Anything
BVJ>  we come up with will see so many borderline cases that -
BVJ>  like the recent "rules for responsible discussants" thread,
BVJ>  the whole thing will degenerate into a battle over semantics.
>
BVJ>  Filter those you don't like, kill the threads you don't like,
BVJ>  and if you feel that strongly about it, sue the ones you feel
BVJ>  slandered by. But don't give us list police and kangaroo
BVJ>  courts, please!

These two pretty much capture, without beating around the bush, the
ESSENCE, CONSENSUS, and PROPER way of dealing with what Hugh is
making UNWARRANTED and UNSUBSTANTIATED allegations to push for his
completely gratuitous idea of CENSORSHIP against individuals (me in
particular) because he has held a grudge against me since 1996.

Hugh seemed to have forgotten (but others haven't) what has been
repeatedly posted; and pretty much universally accepted by every
responsible nettizen as the PROPER way of dealing with posts
unwelcome to some readers (Hugh in this case), e.g. :

September 1999, Week 3, "The Natural Life Cycle of Mailing Lists":
>Date:  Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:28:23 -0400

in particular:

>  6b. Maturity (a few people quit in a huff; the rest of the
>      participants stay near stage 4, with stage 5 popping up
>      briefly every few weeks;  many people wear out their
>      second or third 'delete' key, but the list lives contentedly
>      ever after).

All one has to do is NOT READ the posting by an individual or NOT
READ any of the threads in which one is not interested.  It USED
to require the use of a "delete" key!  It's no longer necessary.
The Scuba-L posts are NOW nicely THREADED in

http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/scuba-l.html

You'll know what the THREAD is, what the posters are BEFORE you
read anything, without resorting to Censorship and Kangaroo Courts!

Moreover, if you're going to make ANY allegations, cite the source
so readers can READ the thread/post in full to decide for themselves
the validity/invalidity of your allegation(s), if you want to ACT
as a "responsible discussant" yourself!


Speaking of "rules for responsible discussants" and Hugh's GRUDGE,

-------------------------
See Feb 2000, Week 3, thread "Code for Responsible Discussants"

o  Hugh posted in February 2000 that one should "Hold No Grudge"
   as a "responsible discussant".

o  Hugh subsequently admitted to me that he had held a GRUDGE
   against me *** since 1996 *** because of ONE POST I made
   about HIS act of FAKING EMAIL in 1995, when he was threatened
   by one of Cochran's shills, Ralph Riggs.

This RFD thread started by Hugh is clearly a continuation of his
GRUDGE against me.

The readers have spoken, loudly and eloquently, before I read any
of this thread!

I am merely adding a couple of needed commentary, such as this one,
to HIGHLIGHT the principles and issues involved.

I'll be spending much of my time (starting NOW) in the next few
MONTHS TRAVELLING (including DIVING all three Cayman Islands this
week; Hawaii next month; house hunting and moving to Chattanooga
this week and following;  Fiji in July;  Cocos Island in August ...
not to mention trips I have NOT YET booked or purchased airline
tickets) where I will have NO internet ACCESS to this kind of
nonsense, by choice or by imposed constraints.

The last time I was away on a two-week trip, Hugh made ridiculous
allegations about me FAKING posts in an Aldora thread, a full week
before I even realized he and others were flaming me in rec.scuba
without ANY facts.

I don't want to see any more repetition of this kind of crap by
you Hugh, every time I am on a diving trip (or any other trip) of
any extended length of time -- and I'll on such almost CONTINUOUSLY
the next three months!

Give it up, Hugh!  You're just making it transparent in your own
ACTS supporting what I've said:

*>       Meet Hugh NED Huntzinger the Supreme Hypocrite and
*>    Grudge Holder, against his OWN advice of "Hold No Grudge"

Much worse than that now.

I can spot an HONEST and FAIR discussant (such as Joe Childs) a
mile away even when we disagree on diving matters (our latest
being our assessment of the Black Shark diveshop).

Likewise, I can smell a rat miles away.  See my FOLLOWING post
to let Hugh expose HIMSELF on his DISHONEST reasons given here
for starting this thread!

I am making this post (and the following one) not as much for
myself -- as for the FUTURE of Scuba-L and ALL Open Forum, against
anyone who dares to propose CENSORSHIP to suit their own whim!

-- Bob.

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