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AUXLANG  May 2000, Week 5

AUXLANG May 2000, Week 5

Subject:

Re: A little experiment.

From:

"Robert J. Petry, C.L." <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 30 May 2000 09:18:33 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (80 lines)

Pierpaolo Bernardi wrote:

> [kut]
> >
> > "Experimentes de Immediat Coprensibilita in Interlingue"
>
> I wonder if you have read and understood what you have posted.
>
> I'll quote just this:
>
> > It es cert que li L.I. ne es fat por illiterates, ma por personnes
> > queles have international contactes e posedent un medial
> > instruction.

I understood what was written there perfectly. And, the point is, so did you.
Otherwise, you couldn't make an argument pro or con about it. And, thus, you prove
what I've been saying all along. The folks here can read it. I notice that when I
post something in Occidental and make no further comment about it, invariably
something in its content will show up, and mentioned by folks who "can't read
Occidental." ;-) It is uncanny, as de Wahl and others wrote, that the Esperantists
always claimed no one could read Occidental but they NEVER had any problems with
what he wrote because they ALWAYS understood the articles they claimed nobody else
could read. Did you read the rest of the post with the above in the context? And,
it is consistent with what I have always posted, including the fact that it is easy
to learn for the "ne-educated". The article was talking about writing on "medical
profession" level subjects, which even the "ne-educat" have trouble with in their
own language. And, if you read the rest of what I posted you will see that even the
"ne-educat" read 45-55% in the tests given. So, don't pick out a line and not
present the rest of the story with it. In actual fact, there is no debating with
folks on auxlang in most cases. They are looking for the loose brick all the time
and never for the good result. So yes, "It es cert que in L.I. ne es fat por
illiterates..." Neither is Esperanto, or any of the other IAL's.

> And then I could quote dozens of messages from you where you claim
> that Occ is comprehensible to n-billions of people, and one who knows
> Occ will be able to understand the same n-billions of people.

This is true. They can with material written on the level of their knowledge. One
certainly is not going to ask a person with no training to read a professional
detailed medical report written for the medical profession, and ask a person with a
high school or lower level to understand it clearly. And, further, I find it
interesting you start with a joke. And, I think everyone knows there are levels of
difficulty in every langauge to the newbie. There is standard text, professional
text, poetry, jokes, etc. One of the most difficult it is claimed is jokes.

>
>
> > Li resultat quel
> > contradi ti de Dr. Lieberman -- monstrat que 90% del textu esset
> > comprendet de persones con superior linguistic practica (multes ha
> > atinget 100%),
>
> So, you quote two different tests, the most favorable to the
> at-sight-school of which, claims that the text is understood by
> "persones con superior linguistic practica".  I'm really not impressed.

I'm not at all impressed with your cutting apart of the text I presented and not
including the parts that don't go along with your hope, nor your test you did. Why
did you leave out the part about the folks without the "education"? Didn't that
suit your agenda? Did you forget the "45 to 55%" which is very high compared to
what Esperanto could/can achieve. In fact, what is not mentioned in this article
about the test is that is was done in comparison with Esperanto to the same groups.
Guess which one had below 45% by quite a margin? ;-) And, by the way, 45-55% is
enough to get across the basic idea to the reader. Yes, yes, leave out the
important parts my friend.

So, here's what I've always said.

1. Occidental can be read and understood by upwards of 2, 000, 000, 000 people.
2. People who will use and learn any IAL are those in "international
communication", if they will learn and use one at all.

Reread my posts on the subject. In fact, Nick commented on one of those statements
on "international communication" because, again, others were misconstruing what I
said and leaving that part of what I said out of their responses to try and negate
my point. SOP. ;-)

Cordialmen,
Bob, x+O~

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