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AUXLANG  May 2000, Week 5

AUXLANG May 2000, Week 5

Subject:

The IAL agenda (was Re: Do I Disagree with all of Bob Petry's Positions?

From:

maf <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Mon, 29 May 2000 18:57:41 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (76 lines)



Chris Burd wrote:

> (cut) Gode, almost alone among interlinguists, rejected the idea of a
> *universal* IAL. He rejected it primarily as an impossibility, but to be
> sure he believed that the whole idea of first engineering and then imposing
> such a thing was illiberal. For a lot (probably most) interlinguists, this
> was opposing something self-evidently good, and it was hard for them to
> even imagine an IAL philosophy that wasn't in line with that goal. Gode
> also frequently attacked what he saw as IAL-ists' predisposition to direct
> a kind of idealism towards IALs in themselves, rather than toward what one
> could accomplish with them. This attitude also aroused suspicion.

Wow, I didn't know this. (Yes, I certainly should have, but I didn't). It's
pretty impressive.
This is of course one of the great paradoxes of the IAL cause, the creation of a
kinder, gentler world by methods that can best be described as totalitarian.
Two points: It's obvious that
a) an IAL will only come into general use if people perceive that this is a good
form of cross-lingual communication, the exact linguistic features of the IAL
aren't that important as long as it passes Paul's famous 'good enough' criteria.
All the main contenders are 'good enough'.
b) People have to perceive that IAL's are good forms of cross-linguistic
communication by coming across them in the speaking/writing. Ads for courses,
letters to the editor and turn of the century (the 19-20 century that is)
propoganda won't get that job done (hint: very few people ever come across a
universal congress)  This is were the "at sight" languages have a big head start
though Ila seems to have made _very_ little capital of this.
c) success for one IAL does not spell doom for others I could easily imagine a
world in which two or more IAL's co-exist (yes, even in the same area). There
are limits to this, I have a hard time imagining both Occi and Ila prospering
but a more 'naturalistic' and a more 'schematic' language could easily coexist
in time and space. After all, one of the main selling points of these things is
that they're supposed to be _Easy_. Even learning two should be much easier than
learning one natlang.
d) keeping 'finvenko' pipedreams under control, one or more IAL's in use won't
eliminate the need for knowledge of natlangs for longtime residents. In other
words, you might use your IAL in establishing initial contacts etc. in a new
country, but if you're planning on a long stay you'd better buckle down and
learn what the locals talk.


> >I have always felt that Goode's Interlingua had relied on
> >the IdiomNeutral, Peano, and Occidental/Interlingue work
> >as much as anything new. Adding only an extreme
> >conservatism to the outcome.
>
> It's worth noting that Gode saw Interlingua not as conservative but as
> radical.

I don't know. You're making me like this guy, too bad I don't take more to the
language. I wouldn't call Ila radical at all.
I think one problem is that the various versions were tested (as I understand
the situation) on a very conservative portion of the population. If _I_ were
testing different orthographic conventions for an IAL I would stay a hundred
miles from university professors, I'd test it with literate 18-25 year olds
because _they're_ the ones in a position to do something for the IAL, not old
fogies coming to the end of their career trajectory.
(This is similar to the fact that if you want to make your mark in academia, you
don't try to impress professors with tenure [and a toe or two in the grave] you
go for graduate students cause their cirrcula aren't set in stone.)


> He saw it as overthrowing the failed tradition of "language
> tinkering" ("Sprachbastelei") that had dominated the IAL movement, in
> favour of something that was (in his view) founded upon realism.

I fully concur, except I don't think realism has to be so ..... (I won't write
it, I won't write it ... you know the "B" word)

amike
mike farris


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