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CONLANG  June 2000, Week 2

CONLANG June 2000, Week 2

Subject:

Re: A Sample of Acadon

From:

AcadonBot <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:42:36 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (181 lines)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Wier" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: A Sample of Acadon


> >From: AcadonBot <[log in to unmask]>
>
> First my own comments: I'm impressed! You outta post it on AUXLANG.

I did, or at least I think I did. I get so many error messages
I'm not sure what gets through.

> I'll
> try and come up with something in Big Six (the "code name" of P 1.0, the
> first incarnation of MY own globally-oriented IAL).
>
> And I agree, appearance means a heckuvalot. As wonderful and successful
as
> Esperanto is, the "-ojn" ending and the consonant sequence "kv" kinda turn
> me off.

All rather subjective, of course.

> Anyway, my comments (praise plus mild criticism):
>
> > Da "Epe Libraeto"
> > by Iohan Stuartu Mill* 1859
>
> Some said it resembled Romanian and Italian; the use of semivocalic "i"
> instead of "j" or "y" isn't really a bad idea, as it is not only the
> practice of Classical Latin in modern rendering (though many write write
> Iesus as Jesus),

Iesu in Acadon.

Most words in Acadon ending in -u are proper nouns.
But there are a variety of other proper noun endings.
Diversity.

> but it correctly reflects the semivocalic nature of the
> phoneme. The use of "j" for /j/, as Esperanto, leaves an ambiguity.

I see nothing inherently wrong in the Esperanto use.
Just a choice of "look" is involved.

> Of my
> "Big Six" languages, this convention would favor Russian and Italian
> speakers only, and for Russian speakers, these would be better of with
some
> knowledge of Polish, Czech, Croatian etc. But English and Spanish use "y"
> for /j/, and transliterated Cyrillic backwards-R (the pronoun "I", that
is)
> is transliterated as "ya" in many Western countries rather than "ja".
>
> I use "y" for Big Six, but the name John, which of course is of
Hebrew-Greek
> origin _yohannah_ > _Iohannes_, could be rendered as "Jon", "Johan",
"Yon",
> "Yohan". I'd prefer to use the name *as is*, therefore "Jon" or "Johon"
or
> "John" (the last example violates the phonetic-orthographic rules of Big
Six
> though).
>
> In years, I use the convention _anyo 1859_, or even _anyo Domino 1859_ or
> _anyo 1859 komun era_, or even _anyo moderno 1859_, since a lot of
natlangs
> do that for clarity.
>
> <CLIP>
> One important feature of IAL's that can be easily taken for granted is
what
> I call "instant comprehension"; that is, a reader who does not know the
IAL
> can at least understand a good part of the text. There might be inherent
> and unavoidable ambiguities. For example, I had to refer to the original
> English because I thought your _Esaio_ was not "Essay" (capitalized in the
> original), but the name Esias (the Greek version of the name Isaiah)!

I rather miss having -y- in such words as essay, employee, etc.
But it's a trade-off. I have tested and used the alternative of
many possible options. Sometimes for very long periods.

> But
> since "essay" is normally a common noun, and I'd rather preserve
> puncuation/capitalization/other conventions of the original text insofar
as
> it's reasonable.
>
> But overall, I can understand a good number of these words. I'd suggest
for
> "principle" the word _principulo_ (provided that <c> carries the value
/ts/
> or /s/ or maybe /tS/ at least before front vowels),

ch is always [tS], otherwise
c is always [k].

z is always [ts] j is always [dZ]

> or at least
> _prinsipulo_, just to split up the "pl" sequence, and the Romance
languages
> do that anyway.
>
> Also, you use <c> and <k> for /k/ (the former of course must precede <a o
> u>), but I can tell you do so for etymological reasons.

Not exactly. Not for learne'd reasons. Only for ease and/or
style..

> Though I use <k>
> for /k/ in all cases in B6, I like what you do. And since you're as
> concerned about appearance as you are about phonological and orthological
> clarity, I wouldn't change what you have. (Continued after next quote....
>
> )> Ate prinsiplo es, ke te solihe fino fro qale antropaeo
> >esi mandeiveat, idividuim au conlectuarim en interferoa
> >cun te libraeto di acteo di ule di lorie numbero, es
> >autum protectueo.
>
> Your use of <q> without <u> was mentioned in another post, and I would do
> what he suggested: write <qu> if the /kw/ sound is what you're after. But
> since you use <c> and <k> for just plain /k/, I would have no problem with
> using <q> for /k/, especially in a word like /ke/ for "what" in "common
> Romance" (I don't know what you have for "what" in Acadon) -- the spelling
> _qe_ would reflect an etymology leading to Latin QUE, instead of, say for
> example, Greek _kai_ "and", which is pronounced [kE] in the modern
language.
> (I don't know why Esperanto uses _kaj_ for "and"; I use simple _i_ from
> Spanish and Russian for the conjunction.)

This I consider a bit too simple. I have no one letter
lexemes.

> > Te sole proteluo fro qale poturo poti eser rectim
> >exergisea surim ule membro di un siviliseat comunaeto,
> >antil oenie volo, es ku prifendi noxo oe otros.
>
> You also use <x>; I presume it has the sound /ks/.

No. For [S] -- the English sh.

> Though I don't use it in
> Big Six (I write <ks> for /ks/. <x> is either /S/ or /x/; this letter is
> only used in special cases, probably only names of people or places),
that's
> another instance of your concern for appearance, and I would keep it like
> that. It is pronounced /ks/ is it, or is it simplified to, say, /s/ in
> initial position?

Always [S] as initial.

> > Oenia prive bono, aunil physicale au moralne, es noe
> >un sufsante mandeivo.
> >
> > Oen non poti rectim eser conpulsea ku fa au tolrisi
> >causin cin vol eser meliore fro oeni ku fa sou, causin
> >cin vol fabri oeni felixere, causin, en te opineos di otros,
> >ku fa sou volia eser sopha, au evese recte.
>
> Is <oe> a diphthong, two separate syllables, or /we/?

oe is [oj]
ae is [aj]
 y is [ej]

> > Isos esi bone razionos fro cotremostroa cun oeni, au
> >razionoa cun oeni, au suasdoa oeni, au pregenoa oeni,
> >lacen noe fro conpulsoa oeni, au visitoa oeni cun ule
> >mauliso, en ucaso qe oeno fa otroho.
> And <z> -- is that /ts/?

Yep. No [z] phoneme. Also no [x]. Also no [Z]

Regards, LEO

Leo J. Moser

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November 2005, Week 5
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November 2005, Week 3
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October 2005, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 1
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December 2002, Week 1
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October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
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September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
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April 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 5
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April 2001, Week 5
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April 2001, Week 3
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April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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