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CONLANG  June 2000, Week 4

CONLANG June 2000, Week 4

Subject:

Re: CONLANG Digest - 22 Jun 2000 to 23 Jun 2000 (#2000-171)

From:

Muke Tever <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Muke Tever <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 24 Jun 2000 04:01:48 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (187 lines)

> From:    Jim Grossmann <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Distinction between adjectives and adverbs
<message snipped>
> --------
> a pleasant dancer
> a pleasantly dancer
>
> this holds for pleasantly retired and pleasant nursing dancers
> too.

The attributions on this message make it impossible to read...

> From:    BP Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: CONLANG Digest - 20 Jun 2000
>
> >"the guy is a newsreader"... (does he support killfiles?)
> >That reminded me of some anecdote about the semantic change of
'typewriter'
> >from the operator of the machine to the machine itself (something about
the
> >typewriter getting up from her desk and walking out the door...)
>
> OK. It should be *newscast reader* according to my dictionary.  I
> translated _nyhetsuppläsare_ on the fly.

Hmm, I think that just becomes "newscaster" here (or do I have the jobs
mixed?)

> >I was going over some words (one of my latest projects is studying what
> >makes _regular_ spelling before I try to 'fix' it) and I noticed that (in
> >non-/tju:n/ English anyway) the /j/ in "long U" disappears pretty
regularly
> >before r, l, and the dental/palatals (d/t/n/T/D/j/dZ/tS...) "dune tune
rune
> >june nuke dew new" but not others (m/p/k/...) "cute puke mute huge mew
pew".
>
> The rule for /tun/ dialects is that /j/ disappears after alveolars.  It
> disappears after /r/ /l/ most everywhere save in Wales.

Ahhh.

> Author: Wijk, Axel, 1901- Title: Regularized English - Regularized Inglish

Hmm, "Inglish" ?  Actually I know at least one person who calls the language
/"ENglIS/.  (The first vowel's supposed to be English "short E", I forget
what the IPA for it really is...)

> and
>
> Author: Wijk, Axel, 1901- Title: Rules of pronunciation for the English
> language : an account of the relationship between English spelling and
> pronunciation Published: London : Oxford U.P Year: 1966 Description:
> 160p.,22cm
>
> may be helpful to your project!

I will look them up (although I doubt any library around _here_ will carry
them at all--it's very odd to hear people wax romantic about the information
content of libraries, when the libraries appear to specialize in romance
novels!).

Is Wijk's work based on a particular accent or is it "general"?

(I don't recognize a difference between <cot> and <caught>, [i.e., the
/A/~/O/ distinction I think] and the dictionary is very little help with
things like that...it seems to make a great many more distinctions than I've
_ever_ heard!  And I don't understand how they can equate the vowel in <paw>
with that of <for>, which is apparently the only place I _do_ have /A/ and
/O/.</minirant>)

> From:    John Cowan <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: CONLANG Digest - 20 Jun 2000
>
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, BP Jonsson wrote:
>
> > OK. It should be *newscast reader* according to my dictionary.  I
> > translated _nyhetsuppläsare_ on the fly.
>
> m-w.com labels "newsreader" chiefly British, but then it's an American
> dictionary of English.  I certainly understood it instantly, and didn't
> think you were personifying "rn".

Maybe.  But I tend to be rather usenet-minded... (perhaps you can tell)

> From:    Mangiat <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: R:      Re: English: Thou
>
> Steg wrote:
>
> > In my own personal 'dialect' i have very strong velarization - which is
> > the reason i like the idea of /l/ -> /w/ soundshifts in languages.  For
> > instance, my own last name "Belsky" i pronounce like /bEwski/, and i've
> > gotten letters in the mail addressed to "Stephen Bosky" from people who
> > have only heard me say my name (especially over the phone!) and never
> > seen it spelled.
>
> After all that change is not unknown to european languages: think about
> Dutch! English OLD > Dutch OUD, if I well remember. And the name
Boudewijn,
> isnt it Baldwin in English (in Italian Baldovino)

And apparently Polish as will, who spell that w with barred-l ?

> From:    Steg Belsky <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: PoS & heretics (was: Cases and Prepositions (amongst others))
>
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:40:27 -0400 Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]> writes:
> > person)(who happens to be)  American'.  Whether you can invert, with
> > the same sense, say, una casa vieja > una vieja casa, I'm not sure-- I
> > have a feeling this is simply a way of emphasizing "old", if it's
permitted
> > at all.
>
> I seem to remember that using _vieja_ before or after changes the meaning
> from "old" (after) to "long-time" (before), so _un amigo viejo_ would
> mean "a friend who's old" while _un viejo amigo_ would mean "a friend
> who's been known a long time (or maybe known a long time ago?)".  Notice
> that English only has "an old friend" for both of them.

The impression I got from Spanish classes were that postposed adjectives
were more "literal", and the preposed ones more "figurative"--or more
English-like.  Our examples had 'viejo' as well.. Hrm..  I think you also
might say _un amigo grande_ "a large friend" and differentiate it from _un
grán amigo_ "a great friend", for example.

Err... This is what I get for never using Spanish.

> From:    Christophe Grandsire <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: French expressions in English (Re: OT CHAT: Asperger's syndrome)
>
> >The same phrase (not a translation, but the very same phrase) is used in
> >English too.
>
> Really? Well, that's only one more. Now that I have cable TV, I can see a
> few English-spoken programs in original version, and I'm quite surprised
by
> the number of French expressions used in English! How many do you have?

This is English.  You can boldly and confidently use any expression you
like, so long as you quietly support it with the requisite contextual cues
and don't make it sound _too_ foreign.  (i.e., "!Kwing3 uou7 !u?1" is right
out.)

> From:    Nik Taylor <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: French expressions in English (Re: OT CHAT:
Asperger'ssyndrome)
>
> Add RSVP (Réspondez s'il vous plâit), déja vu, jamais vu, presque vu,
> nom de plume, nom de guerre, c'est la vie, la creme de la creme,
> savoir-faire, laissez-faire [belief that the government should not
> interfere with the economy in any way], en passant [a chess term], en
> masse, joi de vivre

Film noir (still pl as films noirs), belles lettres, ...

> From:    Barry Garcia <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Asperger's Syndrome and French expressions in English
>
> To save list space, i've condensed down what I want to say right now into
> one message.

[This is the upside of digest mode, folks, it's done for you. =)  err...
roughly.]

> From:    Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: OT CHAT:  Asperger's syndrome
>
> Jonathan Chang wrote:
> >    I have really strange one: synaethesia... I sometimes see certain
> >"sounds" as neon-like colours (like after-images) in the fringes -
> periphery
> >- of my field of vision.
> >    The musical terms _sound-colour_ and _timbral colouration_  have real
> >deeper meanings to me.
> >     Prob'ly this why I am so much into sounds & music.>
>
> An amazing gift.  Are you familiar with Scriabin?  I wonder if you would
see
> the same colors he did......

On this list or some other, which I can't remember, it was established by
dissensus that synaesthetes have individual, ah, synaesthesias which don't
appear to be the same as or related to others'.

     *Muke!

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March 2006, Week 5
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December 2005, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
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February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 1
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November 2002, Week 3
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November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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