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CONLANG  June 2000, Week 5

CONLANG June 2000, Week 5

Subject:

Re: CHAT: Rosaries (was: Ave Maria)

From:

Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 29 Jun 2000 06:59:52 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (146 lines)

At 11:27 pm -0400 28/6/00, Padraic Brown wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Barry Garcia wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>At the chain hanging down:
>>
>>- You start at the crucifix at the bottom, you say the act of contrition
>>(my guide book says apostles creed),
>
>
>>It's kind of hard to describe without showing, but that's the basics,
>>according to mom. (any other catholics thing they can illustrate better?
>>
>
>Only quibble I have is that you forgot to sign yourself before
>starting.

Well, yes.  I expect Barry's mom didn't mention that because we always make
the sign of the cross before praying, whatever the prayer.

>We were taught to do that at the crucifix rather than
>a creed. Also, we don't do anything on the chains.

Yep - the 'hanging chain' bit seems to be a comparatively recent addition
(say a couple of centuries or so) and custom seems to vary on this.  In
England & Wales at public recitations IME it's customary to use this
_after_ saying the 5 decades; usually it's an Our Father at the first bead,
three Hail Mary's for some special intention at the next three beads and a
"Glory be to Father...." at the last one.  The Apostle's Creed is sometimes
included, usually before the 'Our Father".  Tho, as Barry has noted, in
some places it's customary to say these 'extra prayers' before praying the
Rosary.

One thing that has become almost universal practice AFAIK is to recite the
"Hail, Holy Queen" (Salve Regina - an 11th cent. antiphon of Mary, possibly
written by Aimar, Bishop of Le Puy) after the praying the Rosary.  Where,
as in England & Wales, the 'extra prayers' are said at the end, these come
after the Salve Regina.

The main part, i.e. _the_ Rosary, is the recitation of the decades & the
meditation on one of the 15 mystries of the rosary during each decade.  It
works like this, and this has been standard since Pope Pius V, a Dominican
who became Pope in 1564, regularized it's recitation.

Each decade consists of:
 an "Our Father", followed by 10 Hail Marys, and concluding with "Glory be
to the Father....."

The Hail Marys are counted on 10 small beads; on old style rosaries a large
bead separated each decade; on the modern style of rosary each decade is
separated by a single small bead with a small piece of chain each side.

As one recites these prayers, one meditates on one of the mysteries of the
Rosary, which come in three groups of five, namely:
The Joyful Mysteries:
  The Annunciation of Jesus's conception to Mary by Gabriel
  The Visitation of Mary to her cousin Elizabeth
  The Birth of Jesus at Bethlehem
  The Presentation of the infant Jesus in the Temple
  The Finding of the boy Jesus in the Temple (at the time of his visit
there at the age of 12)

The Sorrowful Mysteries
  The Agony of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane
  The Scourging of Jesus by the Roman soldiers
  The Crowning of Jesus with the crown of thorns
  Jesus' carrying his cross to Golgotha
  The death of Jesus on the cross

The Glorious Mysteries
  The Resurrection of Jesus
  The Ascension of Jesus into heaven
  The Descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost
  The Assumption of Mary into heaven
  The Coronation of Mary as Queen of Heaven

These are the Mysteries as regalarized by Pope V and since his time it has
been customary to recite the Joyful Mysteries on Mondays & Thursdays, the
Sorrowful on Tuesdays & Fridays, and the Joyful on Wednesdays & Saturdays.
As for Sundays, the custom is to recite the Joyful Mysteries on Sundays of
Advent through to the Sunday before Lent; the Sorrowful Mysteries on the
Sundays of Lent; and the Joyful Mysteries on Easter and all subsequent
Sundays through to the Sunday before Advent.

If one is interested, the Rosary is recited daily, in Latin, on Vatican
Radio, in accordance with Pius V's scheme (I don't recall the time - it's
IIRC about 9:00 PM in Britain, but I may be wrong. I've no doubt you can
discover with a quick web search  :)

Of course in private prayer one can recite Mysteries as one wishes - one
can (and I have) recite & meditate on all fifteen if one wishes.

Before Pius V's time there was much local variation.  Indeed, the use of
beads or knotted chords in Christian devotion appears to have begun  among
the hermit monks of 4th cent Egypt in their daily recitation of the Lord's
Prayer.  Paul the Hermit is said to have repeated the Lord's Prayer 300
times a day, using pebbles to keep count.  I'm told that a chord of 100
knots, called a kombologion or komboschoinion is used by monks of the Greek
Church for recitation of the Lord's Prayer.

A similiar custom seems to have pertained in the early Western Church,
hence the word 'paternoster' to mean a chain of prayer beads, or anything
similar such as fishing line with hooks at intervals along it.  But when
the Ave Maria developed as a popular devotion during the 11th & 12th
centuries, it became customary to use this prayer as well when 'counting
beads'; indeed, the number of Hail Mary's gradually increased and the Our
Father's decreased.  During the 13th & 14th century a form known as "Our
Lady's Psalter" became widely used; in this 150 Hail Marys (there are 150
Psalms of the Old Testament) were said, each Hail Mary (which didn't have
the second part, "Holy Mary, Mother of God......." bit at that time) was
prefaced with a verse from scripture - therefore, a book was necessary for
the recitation in this form.  The Hail-Mary's were said in 15 groups of 10,
each concluding with the "Glory be..." as was (and is) the custom when
reciting psalms in church.  Each group of 10 (decade) concerned itself with
some incident in the life of Mary and/or Jesus, but these varied from place
to place.

Pope V wanted simplify the 'Psaltar of Our Lady' so that it could become a
popular devotion among the still largely unlettered laity - so he abolished
the need of a book by cutting out the scripture verse and substituting the
full Tridentine version of the Hail Mary.  He also standardized the 15
mysteries as I've given them above and laid down the practice of recitation
a particular set of mysteries on prescribed days.

>One nice way of doing the prayers comunally is to take it in turns
>for each decade being the "leader", who recites the first half
>of the prayers while the "responder(s)" recite the second half.
>Makes for a nice cadence, once everyone quits stumbling about!

This is normal practice at public recitations here - and is the way it's
done on Vatican Radio  :)

Phew!!!

Now, Philip, your turn to tell us about the Buddist rosary  ;)

Ray.

=========================================
A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
=========================================

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December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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