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AUXLANG  July 2000, Week 4

AUXLANG July 2000, Week 4

Subject:

Chomsky

From:

"Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:05:26 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (172 lines)

>From:    James Chandler <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: A Thought?
>
>Mike rote:
> >The gentleman from MIT would be honored, but you greatly overestimate his
> >importance.
>
>The (perhaps rather worrying) thing is that i dont think i do overestimate
>his importance, or that of his program for linguistics (at least, not by
>much).

When I first got started in Lojban work (late 80s), I was told that Chomsky
had a strong hold on the linguistics departments at major American
universities, though there were challenges to his hegemony that were
starting to appear.  I was told that outside the US, his ideas were never
as widely accepted nor his power so great, and surprisingly given his
politics, in the USSR he was largely ignored.

> >Mr. Noam has no interest in any kind of applied linguistics but this
> >hasn't stopped applied linguists from working in any number of interesting
> >fields.
>
>Similarly his lack of interest in sociolinguistics hasnt stopped people
>working in that field.  But he has been quite damning of that work on a
>number of occasions, accusing it of having no interesting theories or
>results.

Yet, due to the methods of academia, the sociolinguists merrily go on their
way and ignore him.  He has little direct power over them, except in the
research purse (which I will get to below).

> >I've been around linguists for 16 or so years (to some extent or other) and
> >I've known a lot of them (well over a hundred, I'm sure, if you count
> students
> >and colleagues). I can count on one hand the number of them who think
> Chomsky
> >is the most important/significant linguist of the last 50 years and
> still have a
> >finger or two left over.
>
>Frankly, i do not believe this for one minute.  You only have to look at the
>books which continue to pour off the press, for instance Steven Pinkers
>Words and Rules, and Neil Smiths Chomsky.  Altho very interesting, they are
>hopelessly fawning to Chomsky and uncritical of his positions.  It is almost
>as if there is a conspiracy among linguists to raise Chomsky to some sort of
>godlike (or perhaps Platonic) status within and outside the subject.  Smith
>even follows him down his anarchist political path.  (All this is very odd
>considering Chomskys public disavowal of cults of personality.)

That he is the only linguist written about for the general market (which
isn't quite true) does not make him the only important linguist.  Most
other linguists, the ones who are doing the work that makes them respected,
are not written about because they - do the work that makes them
respected.  They don't launch political activism careers on the side, nor
do they build empires in academia.  They just do research and publish
papers and maybe a book or two.

>Also, there are very few linguists indeed nowadays who demur from his
>general program (those i could count on the finger of two hands, with
>fingers left over).  This is an extremely unhealthy position for any field
>of inquiry to be in.

Here is where you are wrong.  Chomsky's general framework started being
under attack in the early 80s and has been under slow and steady retreat
ever since.  The books you are seeing aimed at the general public are in
part an attempt to rescue his legacy before all his academic work is made
nought.

If you want a name of a major linguist who demurs from Chomsky's program,
I'll give you Bernard Comrie of UCLA, who I first read back in the
80's.  His book on Linguistic universals is excellent reading for anyone
seeking to understand the problems an IAL faces, and IIRC he starts off in
the beginning of the book more or less telling why Chomsky is wrong within
the subject area he is covering (but casting doubt over a much wider range
of Chomsky's argument).

Another big name that rejects/ignores Chomsky is George Lakoff of Berkeley
(if you notice a West coast pattern here, you are probably right), whose
research into metaphor and categorization has led to a couple of
semi-popularized books of his own, of which _Women, Fire, and Dangerous
Things_ is the most well known.

When last I subscribed to Linguist List over 5 years ago, there was a whole
school of linguistic thought called "functionalism" that had grown up
separately and in opposition to Chomskyism in the last generation.  I don't
recall the names of the linguists (other than Lakoff who I think is a
functionalist), but recall that there was a cluster of them at U of Oregon
or Washington.

Meanwhile of course, pressured by computer science, the border between
cognitive science and linguistics has been a hotbed of research in the last
decade, and that arena largely rejects Chomsky's work completely.

> >(He _is_ the most famous outside the field and has been at
> >times the most influential but almost no one buys his whole party line)
>
>He is certainly the most influential linguist since the fifties.  One only
>has to read Charles Hocketts recent (1997) article in Lingua to realize how
>much of the resources in linguistics are now devoted to the Chomskyan
>program.

It was probably safe to say that Chomsky and his followers probably
controlled more than half, and maybe more than 3/4 of pure linguistics
research money in the US in the 60s.  But this is a bogus statistic since
in those days linguistics research funding was descriptive fieldwork done
mostly by grad students, often done as part of a multidisciplinary
expedition.  Dr. JCB got a little funding for Loglan work in the early 60s
- linguistics in those days was funded by the National Institute for Mental
Health.  So what Chomsky built was a funding empire within the NSF
framework for his new paradigm of theoretical linguistics.

The old empire did not go away; anthropological linguistic work
continued.  But it "hid under a rock", so to speak, and published in
anthropological journals and not linguistic ones, and suffered somewhat for
funding, but not that much because Chomsky had really opened up a new
avenue for funding as well as a new paradigm.

And applied linguistic work continued.  Georgetown University is one of the
leading linguistics universities in the world, and it is almost entirely
oriented towards applied linguistics, holding a prestigious annual
conference on the subject.  And a professor there, Deborah Tannen, is much
more well known to the public than Stephen Pinker for her works on the
linguistics of communication between genders.  Stephen Krashen (U of
Utah?), made a name for himself with novel theories of language education.

And as I've said, cog. sci. is a new source of money, more money than
linguistics research has ever seen before, and its practitioners do not
think much of Chomsky.

And I haven't even mentioned Joseph Greenberg, whose continued historical
linguistics work has prompted lots of controversy, the Russian scholars who
worked on Nostratic which has prompted even more, and finally
"Proto-World", which I daresay more people have heard of than "deep
structure" or "generative grammar".

>   Hocketts is one of the last remaining voices in the wilderness,
>willing to call the whole endeavor into question and to encourage the
>development of alternative approaches.  Almost noone else ever strays
>outside Chomskys framework.

See above, or go read linguist list archives, doing a search for
functionalism/functionalist.  Even Sapir-Whorf, long written off as dead
and nailed in its coffin by Chomskyians (and Pinker tried to hammer a few
more nails) was resurrected by supporting evidence accidentally discovered
by Kay and others (Kempton?) in anthropological work in the 80s.

> >I'd say there are a lot of reasons and while Noam doesn't help, he's not
> >the main cause.
>
>The most likely cause of the problem seems to be the direction that
>linguistics has taken since the fifties, and the inordinate proportion of
>resources that has been devoted to work in that direction.  It has left
>almost no room for the consideration of different points of view, let alone
>of topics lying outside the central concerns of generative grammar.  This
>situation has been damaging for the subject, but also more widely, if my
>suspicions are well-founded.

What has largely happened is that "structural linguistics" died, and then
was reborn in its Chomskyian incarnation.  At the same time, in American
universities, the academic discipline of philology where many linguists
actually worked seems to have disappeared completely, though this may have
been even before Chomsky.

Methinks you are too much the pessimist James.

lojbab
--
lojbab                                             [log in to unmask]
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA                    703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:                 http://www.lojban.org

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April 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 3
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January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
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September 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 1
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October 2001, Week 3
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October 2001, Week 1
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September 2001, Week 1
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July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 3
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
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April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
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January 2001, Week 3
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January 2001, Week 1
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