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AUXLANG  July 2000, Week 4

AUXLANG July 2000, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Chomsky

From:

James Chandler <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:50:33 GMT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (90 lines)

Bob LeC rote:

>Here is where you are wrong.  Chomsky's general framework started being
>under attack in the early 80s and has been under slow and steady retreat
>ever since.  The books you are seeing aimed at the general public are in
>part an attempt to rescue his legacy before all his academic work is made
>nought.

This account differs markedly from my own impressions of the current
situation in linguistics.  To me, as an outsider, the appearance is that
Chomskys books on language and mind keep rolling out, along with books on
generative grammar, Chomskyan linguistics and Chomsky himself.  The
impression i got from looking at recent journals is that most of the
research going on is still generative grammar of one sort or another.  Your
picture of Chomskyan ideas being in retreat and their defenders making a
last stand before the tides of change wash them away and invalidate decades
of work seems to me quite far-fetched, given the evidence of my own eyes.

>If you want a name of a major linguist who demurs from Chomsky's program,
>I'll give you Bernard Comrie of UCLA, who I first read back in the
>80's.  His book on Linguistic universals is excellent reading for anyone
>seeking to understand the problems an IAL faces, and IIRC he starts off in
>the beginning of the book more or less telling why Chomsky is wrong within
>the subject area he is covering (but casting doubt over a much wider range
>of Chomsky's argument).

I too have read (most of) that book, and Comrie definitely comes down on the
side of Greenbergian methods in the search for universals.  I am aware that
there are linguists like Comrie who dissent from the Chomskyan line in one
area or another, but as i say, the number of such linguists that i am aware
of is definitely in single figures.

>Meanwhile of course, pressured by computer science, the border between
>cognitive science and linguistics has been a hotbed of research in the last
>decade, and that arena largely rejects Chomsky's work completely.

True, but then connectionist ideas on language do seem to be quite as whacky
as some of Chomskys notions.  This is one area where Chomskyans, such as
Pinker, seem to justifiably have the upper hand.

>And I haven't even mentioned Joseph Greenberg, whose continued historical
>linguistics work has prompted lots of controversy,

Greenbergs must then be another of the voices from the past, who started out
before the generative paradigm held sway.  Such people do not seem to be
making much of an impact nowadays.

>What has largely happened is that "structural linguistics" died, and then
>was reborn in its Chomskyian incarnation.

Now this i _would_ agree with.  I think there is a serious question, now
that some Chomskyans have started claiming they are close to a discovery
procedure, that Chomsky has defeated Bloomfieldian structuralism only to put
a new structuralism in its place.  In particular, his and Halles absurdly
simplistic evaluation measure for the surface structure to phonetic form
section of the grammar reveals serious weaknesses in the whole Chomskyan
approach to the formulation of grammars.

>Methinks you are too much the pessimist James.

I think if that were true, i would not spend so much time on this list, or
have much at all to do with the question of an IAL.  However, when it comes
to linguistics, i am deeply pessimistic about the present state of the
subject.

Fred Householders parting sentence in his 1965 article criticizing
Chomsky-Halle ideas in phonology was this: 'Let us not block the path of
inquiry'.  From the perspective of someone looking at linguistics today, 35
years on, it seems as if Householders words were not heeded, and that the
path of inquiry has been well and truly blocked, jammed by Chomsky and his
followers who will allow no other ideas to pass.  One only has to look at
the state of phonology, with just two or three prominent linguists still
putting the case for the phoneme and a more traditional type of phonology
(within generative grammar), to realize how exclusively tied to Chomskys
ideas linguistics has become.

Kordiale, James Chandler
[log in to unmask]
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5037

"The 'linguistic evidence' for a given linguistic theory is like the
evidence that led to quark theory - namely that the theory brings order to a
given domain. That by itself may not indicate what aspects of the theory
correspond to reality and what aspects are artifacts of notation." - Gilbert
Harman, Two quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavioral
and Brain Sciences 3 (Harmans Hatchet)

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