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AUXLANG  July 2000, Week 4

AUXLANG July 2000, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Brighter Interlinguistics

From:

Jay Bowks <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:36:51 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (147 lines)

>From: "Robert J. Petry, C.L." <[log in to unmask]>
> W. R. Wallace
> Of course it was Zamenhof who started all this business of
> Interlinguistics. True there had been many previous attempts to devise
> an international auxiliary language before the little doctor gave us
> Esperanto. But none of them was very practical, being based on such
> things as the notes of the tonic scale or arbitrary combinations of
> letters and often numbers too, which would be difficult to remember and
> impossible to pronounce. Volapu"k, [...]> least, hideous.
Man oh man! Who is this Wallace dude? Where did he get this nonesense?
The fact is that there were quite a few good projects before Zammy and
even Schleyer. Some a little weird like Schipfer's Communicationssprache
but others quite good. Already Henderson had come up with a Latin/Romance
based IAL which he refined into Lingua later, and Anglo-Franca much later.
Here's a few for example that predate Eo and V'puk...

1788 Lango du Mondo (J. de Ria)
1839 Communications sprache (J. Schipfer)
No Pera, wia ete Cielu ta Noma sanctiferii; ta Royoma Ais arrivii; ta
volonta farerii com Cielu ansi Terru.
1858 Cosmoglotta (L. de Rudelle)
1858 Monopanglosse (P. Gagne)
1862 Alevato (S. P. Andrews)
1868 Universalglot (M. Pirro)
1871 Interprete Universel (Holmar)
1875 Lingualumina (F. Dyer)
1877 Monoglottica (G. Ferrari)
1880 Volapuk (J. M. Schleyer)
1885 Neolatine (E. Courtonne)
1887 Esperanto (L. Zamenhof)

Bobster at least you'll recognize the name Cosmoglotta in
among the lot. Hmmm... the more things change... But to
be spreading half truths and silly comments like Wallace
makes above shows true ignorance of the facts... or is
it purposeful misinformation???

Are you really going to put this nonesense on Cable?
There's already enough nonesense on TV already, Bob?!?

Since,
Jay B.


----------
>From: "Robert J. Petry, C.L." <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Brighter Interlinguistics
>Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000, 11:07 AM
>

> In the material I just received is this little booklet produced by the
> British Interlingue Association. It was written by W. R. Wallace.
> Tonight on the TV program my wife Arlene and I will be going over the
> booklet, along with showing some of the interesting publications that
> came in the large package of Occidental/Interlingue writings.
>
> Here is a short excerpt from its beginning. We will be reproducing the
> entire little 16 page booklet for one of the mailings with the
> Cosmoglotta jurnal soon.
>
> Brighter Interlinguistics
> by
> W. R. Wallace
>
> Rapid Resume of Interlinguistics
>
> Of course it was Zamenhof who started all this business of
> Interlinguistics. True there had been many previous attempts to devise
> an international auxiliary language before the little doctor gave us
> Esperanto. But none of them was very practical, being based on such
> things as the notes of the tonic scale or arbitrary combinations of
> letters and often numbers too, which would be difficult to remember and
> impossible to pronounce. Volapu"k, an immediate predecessor of Esperanto
> leaned over backwards in an attempt to avoid pronunciations which may be
> difficult for some of the world's races, and the result is, to say the
> least, hideous.
>
> Esperanto does have this virtue that most of its root-words were taken
> from Western languages and are therefore fairly international. But why,
> oh why, did Zamenhof then choose so many artificial affixes? When these
> are tacked onto the roots the resulting words lose all aspect of
> naturalness. And there is no limit to this form of linguistic
> jerry-building. Some of the products of this crazy method seem like
> crossword puzzles. The mutilation of familiar words for the doubtful
> virtue of phonetic spelling, I could tolerate, but combined with an
> invented grammar and the unnatural affixes it is just too much for me.
>
> Many attempts have been made to improve Esperanto, and the best of these
> is, undoubtedly, a project known as Ido. The alphabet has been restored
> to its familiar form and more natural looking roots are the result. Many
> of the affixes too are of a more international form, but again in this
> language the too rigid rules of derivation produce words which are even
> more artificial than in Esperanto. Everything is sacrificed to the god
> of logic. Now logic is a good thing in its proper place. Logical
> reasoning is a valuable and indeed vital adjunct to the sciences. But
> language is an art, not a science, and Art needs no reason and is ony
> fettered by logic.
>
> Just as Esperanto and Ido are the two most important representatives of
> the "autonomous" school of thought in Interlinguistics, so is the
> "naturalistic" school of today represented by two interlanguages. They
> are the InterlinGUE of de Wahl and the InterlinGUA of the International
> Auxiliary Language Association. They resemble one another as closely as
> do their names and may in fact be regarded as two dialects of the same
> interlanguage -- the first really natural I.L. They have largely
> jettisonned logical in favour of commonsense derivation, and regularity
> has been substituted with naturalness. That is not to say that a certain
> measure of logic and regularity is not to be found in these "dialects".
> Indeed it is, but they are both more tolerant of true internationality
> and have each striven towards a language that will look and sound and
> have a grammar as "real" and as beautiful as possible, consistent with
> ease of learning.
>
> I hope that one day soon they may be sufficiently tolerant to combine
> the results of their separate efforts into one perfectly fused natural
> international tongue. For of all the attempts to find a means of
> world-wide inter-comprehension ILe and ILa are as superior to the rest
> as Standard English is to Pidgin. [Note: at the time of this being
> written, 1956, the author did not have the perspective of seeing how ILe
> and ILa compared with each other as we do today. And, as some
> Interlinguists later found out, there was a difference and after leaving
> Interlingue for Interlingua, they returned to Interlingue. Now with 50
> years of experience, I can safely say, ILe/Occ will regain its proper
> place, and in actual fact, is already doing so. The magnetic pole that
> pulls to the center is Occidental/Interlingue, as has been the evidence
> of all language projects since Occidental began has shown. They all, in
> one way or the other try to imitate Occidental, but refuse to accept the
> reason for trying to imitate and improve it. It is the "tao of"
> international langauges, and all strive to imitate it.]
>
> A PLEA for LESS LOGIC IN INTERLINGUISTICS
>
> For several years I have been interested in the arguments and
> discussions regarding the best form of international language. I have
> read many good articles on this subject and had much correspondence with
> interlinguists in many lands. .....
>
> =========================
>
> Well, that's enough.
> Back to more reading.
>
> Cordialmen,
> Bob, x+O~
>

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January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
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August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
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July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
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July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
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March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
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November 1999, Week 3
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November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
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August 1999, Week 3
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August 1999, Week 1
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July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
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June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
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October 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
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October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
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September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
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July 1997, Week 5
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July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
June 1997, Week 4
June 1997, Week 3
June 1997, Week 2
June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 3
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February 1997, Week 1

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