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AUXLANG  August 2000, Week 4

AUXLANG August 2000, Week 4

Subject:

Re: making a test only

From:

"Donald J. HARLOW" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:05:21 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (129 lines)

Je 01:24 atm 8/28/00 -0400, Wil TELANG skribis

>Dear Mr. Harlow,
>I am getting the impression that many members of this Auxliang list are very
>light hearted fellows. This is not to say I am acting as a critic. I am
>having a hard time understanding the sense of the humorous messages. I feel
>I came into a conversation that was already taking place and people were
>laughing heartily and I do not get the joke yet I know the punch line has
>been said. I would appreciate very much a brief message on the situation
>that has lead up to this series of messages. I feel I am involved but yet I
>do not think I understand fully what it is I am involved in. That is as much
>of humor as I can muster. I include a "smily" :^)

In one of his messages to you, Bob Petry quoted a figure of "100-500"
potential readers of his post about burning his materials. I mention this
figure because I'm about to quote three other figures to you:

occidental list - 23 subscribers
IALlist - 32 subscribers

These are the two lists to which Bob posted about burning his materials, I
believe: a total of 55 subscribers, not taking overlap into consideration.
Ken Caviness, I believe, copied the posting to this list (Auxlang), which
has a total of somewhat more than 60 subscribers, with -- I suspect --
close to 100% overlap with the IALlist. So we are really looking at fewer
than 100 people who would have seen Bob's posting.

I mention these figures to indicate that you have entered into a small, and
very select (self-selected, of course) family, and, like any family, it has
its own in-jokes, running jokes, and -- as you perhaps now appreciate --
the crazy uncle that one wants to keep hidden in the attic. I like to think
(and in most cases, I think I'm correct) that we also share a certain sense
of humor. If you have noticed this, and are commenting on it, I for one
would not consider that a criticism -- more in the nature of a compliment.

Someone -- I think it might have been Robert Anton Wilson of "The
Illuminatus Trilogy", but I'm not sure -- once wrote that "the history of
civilization is a history of wars between secret societies". The history of
the international language movement, too, seems to be a history of wars
between not-so-secret societies. There are several histories of these wars
available. I'll recommend you to the one I know best: my own. Visit
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/eaccess/eaccess.book.html, and select Chapter 3
(you might also find Chapters 1 and 2 interesting, though not totally
pertinent to the current situation; later chapters will be of interest only
if you have a particular interest in Esperanto). I should warn you that
others here may disagree on my interpretation of events; the more polite
will warn you of my bias (which exists, and of which I make no secret), the
less polite will use stronger language.

Having read that, you will probably understand that many members of Auxlang
-- those who post a lot, in particular -- have their own preferences for an
international planned language, and that the ongoing discussions in this
list are oriented around the fact that (a) we share this common interest,
and (b) we do _not_ (necessarily) share preferences for how to realize this
common interest in the real world. So you'll find a lot of tension here,
and also, I think, a lot of light-heartedness. Without the
light-heartedness, the list would probably disintegrate rapidly.

The particular case in question has to do with a recent attempt by Bob
Petry to revive the moribund Occidental movement. Occidental was published
in 1922 by Edgar von Wahl, a former Russian naval officer and teacher in
Reval (Tallinn), Estonia. Between the decline of Ido in the mid twenties
and the rise of Interlingua in the early fifties, it was probably the
(distantly) second most popular planned IAL in Europe. Since languages
(though sometimes described as "living") don't seem to die in the same
sense that humans do, a resurrection of Occidental was not out of the
question; questions arose, however, over some of Bob Petry's tactics. Those
questions are currently being asked yet again, for obvious reasons. Your
posting this morning contributed much material to the whole discussion; as
you've probably noted, this list has been more active today than it has
been for the past week.

I would add that Bob Petry's characterization of people in this list and
others as (I don't remember his exact words) hobbyists and dilettantes who
do nothing to advance the cause of any planned language is grossly unfair
and shows an ignorance of the facts which, given the number of times that
this has been pointed out to him, has to be wilful. A good number of the
posters here contribute heavily to their own language of choice: I mention
only James Chandler with Ido, myself with Esperanto (particularly in the
field of on-line Esperanto literature), Jay Bowks with Interlingua, etc.
Ken Caviness, who administers the French-language version of the on-line
Free Esperanto Course (Cours Gratuit d'Esperanto), has also contributed
materials about other planned languages to the web. I could name others if
it were not so late at night here. The major difference between us and Bob
is that none of us seems to be doing this with any sense of
self-aggrandizement or hope for personal profit; which, from Bob's point of
view, seems to mean that none of us is doing anything at all.

I don't know if this has answered the questions you have, but I hope it's
given you a little bit of understanding of the situation here, and that
that will help you to orient yourself to the ongoing dialogue to which
you've exposed yourself. Welcome to the club!

---

P.S. One warning. I don't suppose anybody here will fault you for posting
Bob's private e-mail to you to this list this morning, given how
informative and amusing it was, but when Bob himself makes such a
complaint, he's on solid ethical ground, unlikely as that may seem. Posting
a private e-mail, at least in its entirety, to a public mailing list or
newsgroup without permission of the author is a violation of netiquette,
and _may_ be a violation of copyright law, as well -- I don't think the
latter question has ever been tested. A word to the wise. (Sending your own
e-mail to Bob and to the list simultaneously is, of course, perfectly
legitimate.)


-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html

Se vi serĉas...
   Novelojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Noveloj/
   Poemojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/
   Recenzojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Recenzoj/
Ĵus aperis la enhavo de la nica literatura revuo 3/1 (speciala rusa numero)
ĉe http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Revuoj/nlr/nlr31/:
   Antaŭparolo de la redakcio
   Anĉaro, poemo de A. PUŜKIN
   La diabloj, poemo de A. PUŜKIN
   Poŝtrestante, novelo de Natalja LAVRENTJEVA
   Blinda kuiristo, novelo de Konstantin PAUSTOVSKIJ
   Ŝerceto, novelo de Anton Pavloviĉ ĈEĤOV
   Betulo, poemo de Stepan ŜĈIPAĈOV
   Grizhararo, poemo de Stepan ŜĈIPAĈOV
   Feino, fabeleto de Maksimo GORKI
   Per plena voĉo, poemo de V. MAJAKOVSKIJ
   Enujulo, longa novelo de Anton Pavloviĉ ĈEĤOV
   Sur stratoj de tumulto bruaj..., poemo de A. PUŜKIN

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