LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for SCUBA-L Archives


SCUBA-L Archives

SCUBA-L Archives


SCUBA-L@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

SCUBA-L Home

SCUBA-L Home

SCUBA-L  September 2000, Week 2

SCUBA-L September 2000, Week 2

Subject:

Diving, Dramamine Sudafed - medical research

From:

Gozum_NT at OIT <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scuba diving discussion list <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:22:11 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (143 lines)

Many thanks to Hugh, Art and others for an interesting article!  The
current issue of Pharmacotherapy hasn't arrived at our library so I'm
commenting on the news article, scuba-l traffic and other posted enews.

The conclusion that, "The combination of depth and Dramamine, however, may
increase the risk of diving, Taylor and colleagues conclude" is a
possibility, but not answered by the methods of the study.  Likewise, a
statement on the safety of Sudafed cannot be made.

Article do no mention if test subjects had impaired alertness from
Dramamine at the surface, before simulated depth.  Impaired alertness does
not affect all Dramamine users.  I wish I had a copy of the paper to
further critique the methods, if anyone does please forward it to me.

Its assumed that since nitrogen narcosis becomes significant past 60ft the
effect of two or more sedating/mind altering drugs increases the risk of
scuba injuries by diminishing diver judgement.  FYI: for drugs, 'additive'
means its effects occur as a summation of effects 1+1=2, or
synergistic,  1+1>2.

Risk may be defined as a factor that increases chance of occurrence.  The
study did not actually show an association between the use of Dramamine and
increase accident or injury rates in actual scuba regardless of depth; such
a question is best answered by the injury and death rates. Does anyone know
if DAN injury/death reports contain toxicology data?  If so, does it
include all drugs or just drugs commonly abused?

The tests used to detect impaired alertness does not immediate translate
into injury. Note, not just drugs, but foods and environmental conditions
can alter mental alertness.

For example, diurnal variation in mental alertness is well known, in normal
subjects awake from 8am, it peaks around 10-1pm, and decreases continuously
therafter, lowest at to 4am the next day.  Thus, divers who, drug free,
night dive can be tested and show 'diminished alertness' AT THE SURFACE,
but is this significant?  What is the definition of significance?  If so
night diving, as well as dives past 100 ft, should be banned.  The same
diminished performance affect personnel required to perform high level
tasks at late night: on call physicians, soldiers, special forces
operatives, firemen, etc.

The ability of a group of heathly drug free divers to control N2 narcosis
at depths past 60ft at peak alertness time [ 10am ] will still vary for
each diver at the same depth; it can be expected that a diver's response to
mind altering drugs will vary at depth.

Its likely that diving experience, particularly experience in controlling
adverse mental conditions induced by environmental stressors: vertigo,
cold, visibility, unfamiliar surroundings etc., diver's physical condition,
age, etc., will contribute heavily to a safe response to injested
drugs/foods/chemicals.

Note: Dramamine, Bonine and Benadryl are similar, but not identical, to
each other.  All can be used for motion sickness.  Relatively, Bonine <
Dramanine < Benadryl as far as sedation or drowsiness.

In regards to Sudafed or pseudoephedrine, it is a drug similar in action to
natural andrenaline and by its pharmacologic action, unlikely to be
problematic at depth at approved doses.  Again, while this study showed no
undue effects, a conclusion on its appropriateness should also consider
injury and death data with toxicology.

Sufficient injury and death data will suggest that divers who use any
drugs/chemical/food are more, less, or unlikely to suffer injury or death,
regardless of the drugs/chemical/food specific effect.  These data take
into account the whole diver response to these drugs/chemical/food, not the
effects of the drug alone.

For example, while Sudafed is presumed safe in normal people who dive,
users are likely taking the drug to treat a disease to avoid aborting a
dive. A percentage of diseased divers will not be adequately treated, and
if they encounter significant troubles and cannot be compensated
adequately, it will be reflected in morbidity/mortality statistics.  The
disease alone, even if fully treated by Sudafed, may produce other effects.

Users of Dramamine usually are 'normal' people who get sea sick without the
drug.  If a percentage of drugged divers encounter significant troubles at
depth, from impaired alertness or other effects that cannot be compensated,
it could be reflected in morbidity/mortality statistics.  However just as
with nitrogen narcosis, familiarity with any unusual sensation in
experienced divers may allow them to 'take control' of the situation.

In conclusion however, The old rubric of avoiding all drugs when diving
remains sound.   A physician recommendation would be to err on the side of
safety, so the conclusion would be to avoid Dramamine particularly for
dives past 60ft, as there are alternatives for motion sickness that do not
cause drowsiness.




At 12:00 AM 9/8/2000 -0400, [log in to unmask] wrote:
 >Date:    Thu, 7 Sep 2000 08:10:25 -0400
 >Subject: Diving & Sudafed - medical research
 >from Yahoo Health
 >News...http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000905/hl/scuba_1.html
 >
 >They also reportedly found a difference in performance simply from depth.
 >
 >
 >I think the issue of drug performance under hyperbaric conditions is way
 >more complex than this article would imply. If in fact the researchers
 >were looking only for temporary neurological impairment in short, dry
 >dives, they clearly are not able to say that diving while using Sudafed is
 >without risk.
 >
 >--
 >I've recalled hearing some stuff implicating Sudafed, but I don't recall for
 >exactly what - - I thought it was performance impairment.   But if you
 >happen to stumble across the references you were thinking of, I'd like to
 >see them...
---
 >but significant blunting of cognitive abilities while pressurized on
 >dramamine.
 >This pretty much corroborates what we already surmised from observations
 >on thousands of divers - that Sudafed (pseudoephedrine) is not harmful to
 >divers on compressed air. That diving with dramamine (or any other sedating
 >drug) is potentiated by the effects of nitrogen at depth and is dangerous
 >should not come as a surprise. (DUH!)
>More comments about this will be in HealthScout.com by today or tomorrow.
>You can find it by looking up my name in the index. (Ernest S. Campbell,
>MD)."
 >

 >Obviously, the best medicine is to not complicate things by being on any
 >medicine.
 >
 >



Warm regards,


Marv



Warm regards,


Marv

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

September 2016, Week 2
June 2016, Week 1
April 2016, Week 1
March 2015, Week 3
March 2015, Week 2
February 2015, Week 1
August 2014, Week 1
July 2014, Week 5
July 2014, Week 4
July 2014, Week 2
February 2014, Week 4
January 2014, Week 3
June 2013, Week 4
June 2013, Week 1
May 2013, Week 3
May 2013, Week 1
April 2013, Week 3
April 2013, Week 2
March 2013, Week 1
February 2013, Week 2
April 2012, Week 4
April 2012, Week 2
April 2012, Week 1
March 2012, Week 4
February 2012, Week 4
February 2012, Week 1
January 2012, Week 3
December 2011, Week 3
December 2011, Week 2
November 2011, Week 5
November 2011, Week 4
November 2011, Week 3
November 2011, Week 1
October 2011, Week 4
October 2011, Week 3
September 2011, Week 3
September 2011, Week 1
August 2011, Week 3
August 2011, Week 2
August 2011, Week 1
July 2011, Week 2
July 2011, Week 1
June 2011, Week 4
June 2011, Week 3
June 2011, Week 2
May 2011, Week 5
May 2011, Week 4
April 2011, Week 4
April 2011, Week 3
April 2011, Week 2
April 2011, Week 1
March 2011, Week 5
March 2011, Week 3
February 2011, Week 4
February 2011, Week 3
February 2011, Week 2
January 2011, Week 4
January 2011, Week 3
January 2011, Week 1
December 2010, Week 2
November 2010, Week 5
November 2010, Week 4
November 2010, Week 3
November 2010, Week 2
October 2010, Week 3
October 2010, Week 2
October 2010, Week 1
September 2010, Week 4
September 2010, Week 3
September 2010, Week 2
September 2010, Week 1
August 2010, Week 5
August 2010, Week 4
August 2010, Week 3
July 2010, Week 4
July 2010, Week 2
June 2010, Week 4
June 2010, Week 3
June 2010, Week 2
May 2010, Week 3
April 2010, Week 4
April 2010, Week 3
March 2010, Week 5
March 2010, Week 4
March 2010, Week 3
March 2010, Week 2
March 2010, Week 1
February 2010, Week 3
December 2009, Week 4
December 2009, Week 1
November 2009, Week 2
November 2009, Week 1
October 2009, Week 4
October 2009, Week 3
September 2009, Week 3
September 2009, Week 2
August 2009, Week 4
August 2009, Week 3
August 2009, Week 2
July 2009, Week 4
July 2009, Week 3
July 2009, Week 1
June 2009, Week 4
June 2009, Week 3
May 2009, Week 3
March 2009, Week 4
March 2009, Week 1
February 2009, Week 2
January 2009, Week 4
December 2008, Week 4
December 2008, Week 3
December 2008, Week 2
December 2008, Week 1
November 2008, Week 4
October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
November 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager