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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  October 2000, Week 3

CONLANG October 2000, Week 3

Subject:

Re: târuven vowels and diphthongs

From:

daniel andreasson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:23:00 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (143 lines)

kaleissin the storyteller skrifi:

> > >     http://www.unil.ch/ling/phonetique/api-eng.html

> Typical, 'cause it is so much easier to hear a sound than get it
> explained eh?

I got my soundcard working. For some strange reason I can listen
to cd:s, mp3:s and ra-files, but not au and wav-files. Though I think
I can now. ... No I can't. It says:

"Cannot play back the audio stream: no audio hardware is available,
or the hardware is not responding."

which is weird, since I obviously can listen to other kinds of
soundfiles. Any suggestions what to do?

> I picked those due to how they sound at the above site, the examples
> of [L] and [H] are [AL.A] and [AH.A] respectively.

Sorry. Still can't listen to them.

> > /}/ is Norwegian/Swedish {u}, right?

> Yep, though with the sound-samples above, barred i is close too
> (apparently the Swiss can't handle neat vowels ;) )

You'd think they could, considering they speak French there.

> > So {a} is A followed by a palatal lateral approximant? Sounds
> > weird. And {} is A followed by a voiced labial-palatal
> > approximant, which must sound a bit like a /w/, right? I'm not sure
> > why {a} and {} would sound that different, though.

> Rounding :) The i-bit in {a} is unrounded, while in {} it's rounded
> (it ought to have been a+ygrave but due to ISO-8859-1...)

Aha. Now I get it.

> > Or should L and H be read as high and low tone? I guess not since
> > that should be _H and _L as you have done further down this mail.

> All ASCII-IPA schemes suck, and I don't know of any that suck less :)
> even proper IPA sometimes can't hack it.

Or is it truven that's too complex? ;) Just kidding! :)

> > Ok. So {o} sounds something like {wi} in "twin"? And would be
> > spelled "ton" in truven?

> A+. {o} is of course different from {u}.

Yep. For some reason I can't get into my head that {o} is /u/ and
{u} is /}/. You'd think I could, since I'm Swedish. :)

I know that they're different, though. Of course.

> > And the {y} of {y} isn't really a /j/ but rather something in
> > between /j/ and /w/?

> Yep. {i} and {y} are "of course" different ;)

Must be hard to tell the difference in normal speech though. Not that
it's necessary I guess. Context is everything.

> > Summary so far: The only thing I'm having problems with is the
> > pronunciation of /L/ and /H/.

> Don't fuss over 'em; if the {i} of {a} is the closest to /j/, the {i}
> of {} is somewhere between /j/ and /w/ or if you like a rounded /j/.
> The difference between {a} and {a} is that {} is closest to /w/
> while {} is somewhere between /j/ and /w/, but closer to /w/ than the
> {} of {}. Btw, /H/ is in the French word _lui_ /lHi/ or something
> like that.

AHA! _Now_ I got it! Why didn't you say so in the first place? :)

> Old form of owl was {ooo}, now it's {ou'o}

Doesn't get more onomatopoetic than that, does it? :)

Is there some kind of tonal / intonational difference between the vowels?
Like: /u_L.u_H.u_L/ ?

> > > An aooy is probably some form of bird.

> > Yikes. Ok. Here's a try:
> >
> > /AL.wA.wu.jo.we:.y/ or perhaps:  AL.wAou.jo.we:.y/

> Roughly: /ALwA.uwi.u_Lu_H:\.e:.y/

Hmm. My try wasn't that close. So there's a tetraphthong in
the beginning? That was somewhat hard to see. I petty those
little truven (what _is_ the adjective again?) children trying
to learn how to read and write at school. Ouch.

 8<-- snip exercise -->8

> > >     - tetraphthongs

> > One.

> Correct

> > I'm expecting a big fat red F on this test.

> Nah, I'd give you a C.

I got most of them correct, though since I had the original
syllables all wrong, the rest of the answers were wrong too.
"Fljdfel" as we say in Swedish.

> > Okej. How 'bout: {ajwawjowy}? ;)

> {j} is /Z/ (voiced post-alveolar fricative).

Okay. Change {j} to {zh} then... ;)

> The only unused letters are {w} and {h}, though I've thought of
> replacing {'} with {h}. {,} is /j/ and I'd like to replace that one
> too.
>
> > Daniel, wiping the sweat off his forehead.

> Hehe, but you did ask for it...

I know... I know... I had it coming, hadn't I? :)

> (X-)SAMPA to IPA converter:
> http://odur.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg/sampa/input.html

That's neat. Though it didn't understand "/" and "." though.

> Samples of some dialects of Norwegian, both in IPA, X-SAMPA and sound:
> http://benoni.hf.ntnu.no/dialektprover/indexe.html (From my uni., I
> know several of the speakers.)

mp3's I can listen to. ... But not that one apparently. Arrghs!
What's up with my computer?!?!?

Daniel

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