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CONLANG  October 2000, Week 4

CONLANG October 2000, Week 4

Subject:

R: "Roumant", or whatever it may be called. PART III

From:

Mangiat <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:35:01 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (174 lines)

Cristophe wrote:

> Well, as I promised last week, here is a review of the pronominal system
of
> "Roumant", where will be dealt such issues as the demonstrative pronouns
and
> adjectives (quite unusual for a Romance language I think), the
interrogative,
> exclamative and relative pronouns and adjectives. The personal pronouns,
> possessive pronouns and adjectives, and finally the so-called indefinite
> pronouns and adjectives will be dealt in the next post (because I'm
lacking time
> right now :( ).

OK, lemme see!

> THE DEMONSTRATIVES:
>
> The demonstratives pronouns:
> Demonstratives have three levels of deixis (this/that/yon).

Looks like Latin. Italian mainly works on 2 levels (questo, quello), but
there is also an archaic sounding 'codesto' for 'yon' (Latin 'iste'). There
is, anyway, an alive distinction between 'l' (yonder) and 'l' (there
(over,....)).

> The only real
> demonstrative pronouns can be used only to refer to things. They are:
> stec /st@'si/: this (thing)
> stel /st@'li/: that (thing)
> stel /st@'la/: yon (thing)

Mmm... they look like those I use in my dialect:
stu chi /stu'ki/
and
chell li /kEl'li/

They look like derived from Vulgar Latin 'iste hic' /yon here/, 'iste illic'
/yon there/ and 'iste illac' /yon yon (?)/.

> There is also a form ste /st@/ (st' /st/ before a vowel or h + vowel)
whose only
> use is as dummy subject of impersonal verbs (like plouvre: to rain -> ste
> pleuvet /st@'pl2v/: "it rains") or in expressions like st'ha /'sta/:
"there is",
> and st't /'stE/: "it is".

'St'ha' roughly means 'il y '(sp?), isn't it? Cool, this. Haven't seen in
Romance langs yet. Hey, I must be a dumb. Since we are at
pronominal/adjectival parts, why haven't I told you Sardinian has the
coolest article I've ever seen amongst Romance langs? It's derived from
'ipse': su, sa. ex.: sa oche /sa Oke/(the voice).

> There are no real demonstrative pronouns to refer to living creatures.
Instead
> are used the third person emphatic pronouns, followed by the adverbs c,
l or
> l (connected to the pronoun by a hyphen). Thus we obtain the different
forms:
> lui-c /'lHisi/: this one (masc. sg.)
> lui-l /'lHili/: that one (masc. sg.)
> lui-l /'lHila/: yon one (masc. sg.)
> lei-c /'lEsi/: this one (fem. sg.)
> lei-l /'lEli/: that one (fem. sg.)
> lei-l /'lEla/: yon one (fem. sg.)
> lorr-c /'lOrsi/: these ones (pl.)
> lorr-l /'lOrli/: those ones (pl.)
> lorr-l /'lOrla/: yons (?) ones (pl.)

OK, this happens in Italian as well.

> The demonstrative adjectives:
> As for demonstrative pronouns referring to living things, there are no
real
> demonstrative adjectives. Instead, the definite articles (e, a, s and as)
are
> used in conjunction with the adverbs c, l and l. The adverbs can be put
after
> the noun (then they are connected to it with a hyphen) or before the
article, in
> which case they are truncated in c' /s/ for c and l' /l/ for both l and
l (we
> thus lose this distinction). Both a lingue-c /a'lE~gsi/ and c'a lingue
> /sa'lE~g/ thus mean: "this language".
>
> THE INTERROGATIVES AND EXCLAMATIVES:
>
> The interrogative pronouns:
> To ask about people, one uses the interrogative pronoun queum /k9~/: who?
which
> has a plural form queumz /k9~/ (the difference is heard only in case of
> liaison). About things, one uses qu /ke/: what?, and about abstract
matters one
> uses que /k@/: what? (which is truncated into qu' /k/ in front of a vowel
or h +
> vowel).

This looks like French or Occitan.

> To propose a choice, you use the pronoun e quou /@'kEu/: which one? which
> agrees in gender and number with the the understated noun:
> e quou /@'kEu/: masc. sg.
> s quoux /E'kEu/: masc. pl.
> a qule /a'kEl/: fem.sg.
> as qules /a'kEl/: fem.pl.

Italian 'quale'

> The interrogative and exclamative adjective:
> It is identical for interrogation and exclamation, means "what?, which?,
or
> what!" and agrees with the completed noun in gender and number. It is:
> quou /'kEu/: masc. sg.
> quoux /'kEu/: masc. pl.
> qule /'kEl/: fem.sg.
> qules /'kEl/: fem.pl.
>
> THE RELATIVES:
>
> The relative pronouns:
> cue /k@/: that (which is cu' /k/ in front of a vowel or h + vowel) is
employed
> when the antecedent is expressed, when the relative subclause is not
separated
> from it with a comma, and when the relative pronoun is object of the verb
of the
> relative subclause. In any other case, you have to employ cueum /k9~/:
who(m)
> for people (cueumz in plural) and cu /ke/: which for things. When the
relative
> subclause is separated from the antecedent with a comma, you can also use
the
> form e cuou /@'kEu/ which forms correspond to those of the interrogative
> pronoun e quou.
> Also, when the antecedent is not expressed, you have to use:
> - for things, the neuter article o followed by the relative pronoun needed
(cu
> or cue),
> - for persons, the third person emphatic pronouns lui, lei or lorr,
followed by
> the relative pronoun need (cueum(z) or cue).
>
> The relative adjective:
> There is only one relative adjective, exactly corresponding to "whose" in
> English. It has the following forms:
> coj /kO/: masc. sg.
> cojs /kO/: masc. pl.
> cojje /kOZ/: fem. sg.
> cojjes /kOZ/: fem. pl.
>
> The adverbial relative pronouns:
> They are adverbial forms used as relatives, which are equivalent to a
group
> "preposition + relative". They cannot be used if the antecedent is a
person.
> They are:
> cuend /ka~/: when (equivalent to  + relative, with temporal meaning)
> v /o/: where, to which (equivalent to  + relative, with spatial or other
> meaning)
> ennv /a~'no/: where, at which (equivalent to em + relative)
> coj /kO/ (not to be confused with the possessive relative): of which
(equivalent
> to de + relative, except for possession)
>
> Well, next time I'll finish this post about pronouns. Just hang in there!
> there's still a lot to see :)) .

Heyhey, we wanna see the verbal system : )

Luca

> Christophe.
>

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April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
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December 2005, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 3
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January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 1
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October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
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August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
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August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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