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CONLANG  October 2000, Week 4

CONLANG October 2000, Week 4

Subject:

Re: R: "Roumant", or whatever it may be called. PART III

From:

Christophe Grandsire <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:27:45 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (148 lines)

En rponse  Mangiat <[log in to unmask]>:

>
> > THE DEMONSTRATIVES:
> >
> > The demonstratives pronouns:
> > Demonstratives have three levels of deixis (this/that/yon).
>
> Looks like Latin. Italian mainly works on 2 levels (questo, quello), but
> there is also an archaic sounding 'codesto' for 'yon' (Latin 'iste').
> There
> is, anyway, an alive distinction between 'l' (yonder) and 'l' (there
> (over,....)).
>

French has only one level for the adjective ("ce") and two for the pronouns
("ceci, cela") but still three on the adverbs ((i)ci, l, l-bas, plus the form
"ici-bas" which means approximately "around here"). And it's possible to add
"l-bas" to the demonstratives, creating the third level of deixis. And of
course, Spanish still have the three levels of deixis alive and well (esto, eso,
aquello).

> > The only real
> > demonstrative pronouns can be used only to refer to things. They are:
> > stec /st@'si/: this (thing)
> > stel /st@'li/: that (thing)
> > stel /st@'la/: yon (thing)
>
> Mmm... they look like those I use in my dialect:
> stu chi /stu'ki/
> and
> chell li /kEl'li/
>

Funny, I don't know anything about your dialect. But it's nice, because it means
that what I did is not completely implausible :) .

> They look like derived from Vulgar Latin 'iste hic' /yon here/, 'iste
> illic'
> /yon there/ and 'iste illac' /yon yon (?)/.
>

That's pretty much the case I think :) .

> > There is also a form ste /st@/ (st' /st/ before a vowel or h + vowel)
> whose only
> > use is as dummy subject of impersonal verbs (like plouvre: to rain ->
> ste
> > pleuvet /st@'pl2v/: "it rains") or in expressions like st'ha /'sta/:
> "there is",
> > and st't /'stE/: "it is".
>
> 'St'ha' roughly means 'il y '(sp?), isn't it?

Yes (it's "il y a").

 Cool, this. Haven't seen
> in
> Romance langs yet.

I didn't see it anywhere either. But I saw how "a" is used in spoken French,
and by twisting its use I came with the idea of this impersonal pronoun. Anyway
I like it.

 Hey, I must be a dumb. Since we are at
> pronominal/adjectival parts, why haven't I told you Sardinian has the
> coolest article I've ever seen amongst Romance langs? It's derived from
> 'ipse': su, sa. ex.: sa oche /sa Oke/(the voice).
>

I've read that somewhere a while ago. I think it was on the list but I'm not
sure. Anyway I find this derivation nice. My articles are much more common, they
are simply derived from ille, illa, illud (except that they lost all consonnant
sounds: e, a, o :) ).

> > There are no real demonstrative pronouns to refer to living creatures.
> Instead
> > are used the third person emphatic pronouns, followed by the adverbs
> c,
> l or
> > l (connected to the pronoun by a hyphen). Thus we obtain the
> different
> forms:
> > lui-c /'lHisi/: this one (masc. sg.)
> > lui-l /'lHili/: that one (masc. sg.)
> > lui-l /'lHila/: yon one (masc. sg.)
> > lei-c /'lEsi/: this one (fem. sg.)
> > lei-l /'lEli/: that one (fem. sg.)
> > lei-l /'lEla/: yon one (fem. sg.)
> > lorr-c /'lOrsi/: these ones (pl.)
> > lorr-l /'lOrli/: those ones (pl.)
> > lorr-l /'lOrla/: yons (?) ones (pl.)
>
> OK, this happens in Italian as well.
>

Really? I didn't remember that. Maybe it's unconscious influence then...

> >
> > THE INTERROGATIVES AND EXCLAMATIVES:
> >
> > The interrogative pronouns:
> > To ask about people, one uses the interrogative pronoun queum /k9~/:
> who?
> which
> > has a plural form queumz /k9~/ (the difference is heard only in case
> of
> > liaison). About things, one uses qu /ke/: what?, and about abstract
> matters one
> > uses que /k@/: what? (which is truncated into qu' /k/ in front of a
> vowel
> or h +
> > vowel).
>
> This looks like French or Occitan.
>

I must admit that I shamelessly copied on them :) .

> > To propose a choice, you use the pronoun e quou /@'kEu/: which one?
> which
> > agrees in gender and number with the the understated noun:
> > e quou /@'kEu/: masc. sg.
> > s quoux /E'kEu/: masc. pl.
> > a qule /a'kEl/: fem.sg.
> > as qules /a'kEl/: fem.pl.
>
> Italian 'quale'
>

French "quel, lequel" and Spanish "cul" (I know, it's supposed to be an acute
accent but I cannot find it on the damn PC Azerty keyboard. If I was on a Mac I
wouldn't have this trouble...)

> >
> > Well, next time I'll finish this post about pronouns. Just hang in
> there!
> > there's still a lot to see :)) .
>
> Heyhey, we wanna see the verbal system : )
>

After the last part of the pronouns I promise :) . You will see, the verbal
system is at the same time quite common, but also with strange features (like
the existence of a subjunctive future :) ).

Christophe.

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