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CONLANG  November 2000, Week 1

CONLANG November 2000, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Nakiltipkaspimak goes active!

From:

daniel andreasson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:06:35 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (90 lines)

Marcus Smith wrote:

> >We had a black out here for several hours, total darkness,
> >until I stumbled my way to some candles. The lack of
> >electricity made it impossible to work on my thesis,

> Aha! So that's your new excuse. :)

Hehe. Well, I _did_ read up a bit on Acehnese and Ts'ova Tush
as well. :)

> >  so I
> >decided to do a little field work on Nakiltipkaspimak. And
> >I discovered a fascinating feature which I haven't seen in
> >any natlang. Yet.

> I haven't seen this yet either. Now that I look at it, I'm rather
> surprised - it is a very natural system, and the theoretical
> apparatus to handle it is already in place, almost no modifications
> necessary. Maybe this means I haven't looked hard enough. :)

I totally agree. When I came up with it, it just came to me so
naturally. Like this:

1. Pimak should be active.
2. Pimak incorporates objects (P)
3. Intransitive non-controlled subjects = P
4. Incorporated intransitive subjects = non-control
   otherwise controlled.

Very natural.

> >  (2) *mi-nitap-patam-0
> >       3SG-man-fall-PAST
> >       'The man fell (on purpose).'
> >
> > Example (2) is ungrammatical.

> Yes, indeed. You almost never get agreement with an incorporated
> noun. Unless you speak Mohawk. (But it is still uncommon in that
> language.)

Yup. That kinda goes against the idea of incorporation. At
least some of the ideas with incorporation, if I understand
correctly.

> > What I have discovered is thus that if a full NP is freestanding,
> > it is a controlled action. But if it is incorporated it means
> > that it is a non-controlled action.

> Is this for all sentences or just intransitives?

Just intransitives. But if you incorporate a transitive object,
that object is always non-controlled by definition, incorporated
or not, since it is always P.

> >  (6) ? i-patam-0
> >        1SG:AGT-fall-PAST
> >        'I fell (on purpose).'
> >
> >Example (6) is more likely to be grammatical with a separate
> >pronoun, like example (7):
> >
> >  (7) mis mi-patam-0
> >      1SG 1SG-fall-PAST
> >      'I fell (on purpose).'
> >
> >I'll have to investigate this a bit further, although I think
> >(6) is ungrammatical and (7) is the correct one.

> That would really be an interesting feature.

Yep. Especially since it's almost always just in the pronominal
system that there is some kind of active marking. So if I only
have one form for every pronoun (whether it's AGT or PAT), and
still make it an active system, that's kinda neat.

> > So what do you think? Anyone actually got through this? :)
> > Myself, I think it's pretty neat.

> Very nice system! I like it a lot!

Thanks!

daniel

--
<> KATTAWIKNIK PIMAKTASAL <> [log in to unmask] <>
<>      KATSAYUKNIK PIMAK <> Daniel Andreasson           <>

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