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CONLANG  November 2000, Week 1

CONLANG November 2000, Week 1

Subject:

USAGE: Kristian on Adrian's vowel disorder (was: RE: [i:]=[ij]? (was Re: Pronouncing "Boreanesia")

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 5 Nov 2000 00:30:06 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (100 lines)

Kristian (to Adrian):
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by tightness. If you refering to
> >> aperture, then I'd say that I haven't detected any difference in
> >> aperture between these two vowel sounds. Perhaps its a dialectal
> >> thing.
> >
> >Here's a minimal pair for you: 'could' [kud] vs 'cooled' [kw:ld].
>
> Hmmm... now I'm really having doubts as to whats happening before /l/. I
> need to hear my Brisbane pals again. I suspect your [w:] is really [u-:].
> This actually makes more sense now that I think about it. If /l/ has that
> effect of erasing the [y] glide of long /u/, then [u-y] becomes [u-:]
> before /l/.

I agree.

> >> >> >> For instance, words like "no/know" get rendered as
> >> >> >> [no-y].
> >
> >I really want to hear [y] and [U] next to each other because I'm quite
> >convinced that I *cannot* tell the difference between Australian /u/ and
> >that of most other English dialects I've heard. But I agree with you that
> >the vowel is fronted if I understand the term correctly.
> >
> >Can you name other English dialects in which [y] is used?
>
> Wild guess: Cockney.

Not really.

> I have added below how I recall these vowels spoken in Brisbane. Remember
> that I'm not a native speaker of Brisbane English, so you have to take
> this with a grain of salt.
>
> >-----------------
> >Australian vowels
> >-----------------
> >                     In Brisbane
> >mat    = [b&t]       [mEt]
> >mad    = [m&:d]      [mE:d]
> >mate   = [m&it]      [majt]
> >might  = [mait]      [mAjt]
> >met    = [met]       [met]
> >nit    = [nIt]       [nit]
> >neat   = [ni:t]      [nijt]

I'd go for [nIjt] or even [n@j] for _knee_. But perhaps that'd be
too plebeian for Adrian...

> >not    = [nOt]       [nOt]
> >gone   = [gO:n]      [gO:n]
> >note   = [no-yt]     [no-yt]

ish. That doesn't seem quite right, but I won't hazard an alternative.

> >who    = [hy:]       [hu-y]
> >nook   = [nuk]       [nuk]
> >fool   = [fw:l]      (I'm not sure here)
> >bottle = [bOtl:]     [bOtl=]

Not really relevant, but one wd expect a tap for the /t/ here.

> >mutt   = [mat]       [mat]
> >March  = [ma:tS]     [ma:tS]
> >murk   = [mR:k]      [mo-:k]
> >air    = [e:@]       [e:@_^] ~ [e:]
> >ear    = [i:@]       [i:@_^] ~ [i:]
>
> (Where [@_^] is a schwa with a non-syllabic diacritic)
>
> Note that I never heard any occurences of [&] in Brisbane. All the short
> front vowels are shifted one notch higher compared with say RP English.
>
> >Have I missed anything?
>
> What about "boy" [boj] and "boil" [bojl]?

... which, fortunately, has the distinction of being about the least
mutable of English vowels both cross-dialectally and diachronically
(especially in open syllables).

from a previous message:
> >I listen to more British speech than American. Can you offer
> >the British pronunciations of these phonemes?
>
> There are several dialects alone in the British Isles, so I'm
> assuming you mean RP English. I'll have to rely on my own textbooks
> for this though. According to them, the RP English pronunciations
> of these phonemes are:
.
>     Phoneme     RP English
>       /u/          [u:]
>       /U/          [U]
>       /o/          [@U]

[u] for /u/ except before /l/ sounds very posh, old-fashioned and actory
(= 'Conservative RP'). Better is [u-].

--And.

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