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CONLANG  November 2000, Week 2

CONLANG November 2000, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Fwd (from Conculture): Accepted Crimes

From:

Yoon Ha Lee <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:55:36 -0500

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (113 lines)

On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Kristian Jensen wrote:

> Yoon Ha Lee wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 12 Nov 2000, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 12:37:44AM +0100, Kristian Jensen wrote:
> >> > OK... since no one reacted to this in Conculture, then I must assume
> >> > there are no Koreans in that list. I'm therefore forwarding this message
> >> > here in CONLANG. Yooohooo! Koreans!!! ;)
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> * /me expects a loooong juicy post from YHL ;-) *
> >
> >Eh?  What post was this?  Grad school applications have been putting me
> >out of action.  Any chance you could forward the message to me off-list?
> >I'd like to take a look at it.  :-p
> >
> >YHL, token Korean(-American)
>
> I take it you're not in the Conculture mailing-list then... however,
> I already forwarded the message to Conlang-L, but it seems you always
> miss my posts and Teoh has conveniently snipped it above... Oh well,
> here it is again (and I hope you're not too busy to have a look at it
> this time).: 8)

Heh, it's not just your posts, I summarily delete tens of posts every day
without looking at them based on the subject header.  I'd like to join
Conculture someday when I find I'm *not* summarily deleting Conlang posts
because even skimming them all would take too long.

And even when I skim the first screen of a post, I don't necessarily
*finish* reading the thing, and may delete it as well.  I know there was
an intriguing of geminates, but not knowing what a geminate is, and
having missed the first part of the discussion, convinced me to delete
all those messages.

Prioritization, is all.  <sigh>

> I wrote:
> >OK... since no one reacted to this in Conculture, then I must assume
> >there are no Koreans in that list. I'm therefore forwarding this message
> >here in CONLANG. Yooohooo! Koreans!!! ;)
> >
> >Brad Coon wrote:
> >>Kristian Jensen wrote:
> >>ans...
> >>>
> >>> Something that has always bugged me about the Boreanesian
> >>> kinship/marriage system is its viability in a large population. The are
> >>> no precedents in the real world where moieties exist in a society with
> >>> quite a large population. I have this creepy feeling that there are bound
> >>> to be many Boreanesians that will commit incest as dictated by the
> >>
> >>Aacckkk, stepping in where my ignorance will show, I believe that
> >>Korea has this problem.  Something I vaguely recall from a newspaper
> >>article (and we all know  that newspapers are always correct) is that
> >>there are a limited number of clan (?) names in Korea and one is not
> >>allowed to marry within one's own.  Not sure where to tell you to
> >>look for more information but I seem to recall that either conculture
> >>or conlang has Korean members who can surely tell you more than I.
>
> I'm wondering if the article Brad Coon had read is true. Are there
> limited clan names in Korea, and are they exogamous (i.e., one is not
> allowed to marry one from the same clan)? If they are exogamous, are
> there problems of interclan incest (i.e., people DO marry others from
> the same clan despite the rules of exogamy)? If so, how is it delt
> with? I'm asking because it seems that the Boreanesians might be
> experiencing a similar problem with intermoietal incest, and I'm
> curious as to how real world cultures deal with the problem (if it is
> a problem).

Well, the newspaper-data cited above is no longer correct.  There *was* a
law forbidding members of the same clan name to marry, and it's true that
there are a limited number of clan names (have you ever looked at a
Korean phone book?  <shudder>).  However, this is complicated by the fact
that you have *subclans* within the clan names.  My dad, for example, is
an /i/ from a particular Han River area.  He could legitimately have
married an /i/ clan member from, oh, the Pusan area even before the law
was repealed (amidst considerable opposition from
traditional/conservative Koreans, according to my mom).  So it's not
completely correct to say you can't marry within the same clan name,
because the