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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  November 2000, Week 2

CONLANG November 2000, Week 2

Subject:

Re: THEORY: phonemes and Optimality Theory tutorial

From:

jesse stephen bangs <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:57:41 -0800

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (52 lines)

dirk elzinga sikayal:

> [snip]
>
> A way of thinking about the phoneme is to consider it to be the
> minimal unit of sound which serves contrastive function. Thus any
> feature or property of a sound which does not function contrastively
> may not be part of the phoneme. This actually allows quite a bit of
> latitude. In Shoshoni for example, the 'phoneme' /p/ is realized
> variously as [p], [b], [B], and [F] (the last two voiced and voiceless
> bilabial fricatives, respectively). So what is necessary for the
> Shoshoni speaker? Not the fact that /p/ is voiceless, since there is
> no /b/ which contrasts. Not the fact that it is a stop, since there
> are no /B/ or /F/ which contrast. Only the fact that it is bilabial
> and oral (rather than nasal; there is a contrasting /m/) seems to be
> relevant.

How is this different from the normal feature-marking theory.  We would
just say that the features [+labial, -nasal] are enough to distinguish
/p/, with the rest of the features like [-voice] specified by
language-specific rules for filling out a pronounciation.

> [snipped discussion and examples]
>
> Since the choice between underlying /p/ and /b/ doesn't seem to
> matter, either one's status as a phoneme in the structuralist or
> generative sense seems to be questionable. Thus Optimality Theory
> elevates the "non-uniqueness problem" to the status of a grammatical
> principle by making requirements only on surface forms and takes the
> wind out of the phonemic sails.

This seems silly, though.  Are you suggesting that the native speaker
really doesn't know whether the sound is [p] or [b]?  That the speaker
doesn't know whether the word is "really" /nampa/ or /namba/ since the
surface forms would be the same anyway?  I don't see the advantages over
the traditional generative view here.  How does Optimality Theory deal
with the famous writer/rider problem?

>
> Dirk
>
> --
> Dirk Elzinga
> [log in to unmask]
>

Jesse S. Bangs [log in to unmask]
"It is of the new things that men tire--of fashions and proposals and
improvements and change.  It is the old things that startle and
intoxicate.  It is the old things that are young."
-G.K. Chesterton _The Napoleon of Notting Hill_

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