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CONLANG  November 2000, Week 3

CONLANG November 2000, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Rumsen, Rumsien, Costanoan.

From:

Barry Garcia <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 21 Nov 2000 00:00:57 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (79 lines)

[log in to unmask] writes:
>Ay de mi!  19th Cent. wordlists, usually collected by earnest amateurs,
>are
>the bane of everyone's research, and a challenge to puzzle out. There was
>no
>standardized system of transcription.   Also, IIRC, weren't most Calif.
>languages pretty well moribund by that time?  So the two informants could
>well have been from different sub-tribes....

I havent heard much about the situation of late 18th century Cal Indian
languages, but i wouldnt doubt that situation. Seems all that exists of
Rumsien is this worlist, and some phrases:

-Good Afternoon: /miSi wik/
- Acorn mush is light (clear), baked and parched - iskume teiweu pokersh
totshion yarksh (where y - /j/, and sh - /S/)
>
>
>>Jackson uses c with a caron (upside down ^, no?)for /tS/ i assume....
>        Pretty standard US usage.

Ok, i wasnt sure of the exact terminology of the diacritic.
>
>
>        "c" in US usage usually represnets /ts/-- but with an accent??
>Maybe
>to show palatalization?  That would possibly accord with Pinart's "tj"
>(did
>he know Dutch? tho Alphonse Pinart sounds French)

This would make sense to me. It does say Pinart was a Frenchman, but he
used Spanish for his glosses. But, he may have thought of Dutch, although
it doesnt say here.
>
>
>
>        At least he didn't write it "kigh" or somesuch.

Good god, no. I'm glad for the most part it's a pretty phonetic rendering,
even if many of the vowels i'm not too sure of (and even if it's a
somewhat inconsistent system)
>
>
>
>        Strikes me that he may be  showing a long/short or tense/lax
>distinction with the breve, as also elsewhere. (Not crucial, since you're
>adapting this to a simpler phonology.)
>(snippy)

This is true. The Montreianos arent going to differentiate between tense
and lax (and Rumsien wil have gone extinct, but contributed a lot to
Montreiano before it goes out like a candle in a hurricane :)). I've
noticed in some instances a Montreianized Rumsien reminds me of words in
Mexican Spanish: chitul - hide, bucksin, chapal - hip, machan - dog
>
>
>>Sample words (montreianized at the very ends):
>    (snip interesting examples)
>A very nice way to give Montreiano the needed non-Romance aspect.  Seems
>to
>me the transcriptions get you _close enough_ to a working
>pronunciation.......

Thanks. I think this dictionary is probably the best resource I have at my
disposal for giving it a regional flair and making it "native" to Montrei.
Much of the regionality will go towards terms for native plants, such as
that for Ceanothus, Toyon (side note: this is the holly that Hollywood is
named for. It's other common name is "California Holly").

I also dont think it's *too* important to the casual reader that i try to
get an accurate "translation" of the sounds between Montreiano and
Rumsien. A working pronunciation should suffice. I suspect only someone
who is pedantic would care :).


__________________________________

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