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CONLANG  January 2001, Week 2

CONLANG January 2001, Week 2

Subject:

Re: nouns (substantive and adjective) [was: verbs = nouns?]

From:

Steg Belsky <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:33:37 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (93 lines)

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:09:56 +0000 Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>
writes:
> At 8:48 pm -0500 10/1/01, Steg Belsky wrote:
> >What does it say about "sustantive nouns" and "adjective nouns" in
> >Hebrew?

> The Hebrew section is quite different from the Greek & Latin.  It
> starts
> with pages of stuff about alphabet, pronunciation, syllabification
> etc,
> then after a brief bit on pronouns it goes into page after page on
> verbs! Eventually it does get round to nouns and we find:

> Then, much later in the section on Syntax, we find:
> Q. When is the substantive used for the adjective?
> A. 1.  The substantive of _property_ often stands in the genitive
-

GENITIVE?
Hrm.  As far as i know, Hebrew has no genetive.  Unless they use some
kind of name (maybe nominative?) for construct-case ("blah-blah of") and
use "genetive" for non-construct.  Sounds like whoever wrote this grammar
has been looking at Jūdajca a little too much :-) .

> for the
> adjective; so always of _material_, for which there is almost a
> total lack
> of adjectives, e.g. [Hebrew chars.] _silver vessels_ or _vessels of
> silver_, [Hebrew chars.] _the holy garments_.
>   [I assume the Hebrew is literally 'the garments of holiness']
-

vessels of silver = _kley kesef_
garments of the holiness = _bigdey haqodesh_
(construct nouns can't be definite, only non-construct can)

Although there is an adjective derived from the word _kesef_ (silver)....
_kaspi_, but that means "having to do with money" and not "made of
silver", so the book's right about that.

>   2. Also adjectives denoting a _possession_, _quality_, _habit_,
> are often
> expressed periphrastically by particular substantives [Heb.chars]
> _man_,
> [Heb.chars] _men_, [Heb.chars] _lord_, [Heb.chars] _son_ and
> [Heb.chars]
> _daughter_, e.g. [Heb.chars] _a son of worth_ for _worthy_.
-

Ah... this is probably referring to constructions like _bar mitzva_,
literally "son of commandment", but meaning "man obligated in the
commandments".... Hmm.. "a son of worth"... _ben `erekh_?  i don't think
i've heard of that before, but it makes sense.

> Q. Do adjectives ever stand for substantives?
> A. Yes, chiefly to express an abstract idea.
> But no examples are given of the latter and no more is said about
> this; but
> it reminds me of Greek use of the adjective in, e.g. _to agathon_ =
> goodness [as an abstract quality].
-

Ahah, now i get what it means... i wasn't sure for a second.
Here's an example:
When Pharoah finally agrees to let the Israelites go to the desert "for a
few days to worship their god", he warns Moses and Aaron ~ "see that
_ra`a_ is before your face." _ra`a_ is an adjective, "bad", but it also
can mean (like here) "badness", or "Evil".  Although i've heard that
there's at least one commentator who theorizes that Pharoah is actually
talking about the Egyptian God _Ra_, and saying "Ra will get you!"

> The next question goes onto ask about Hebrew use of singular &
> plural.
>
> I must apologize for not giving the Hebrew. I'm not fluent at
> reading the
> Hebrew alphabet nor do I know the ASCII convention for representing
> some of
> the letters.
>
> Ray.
-

It's okay, i think i got what the book was saying.  Btw, were the
examples that it gave vocalized with all the vowels and other marks, or
just consonant letters?


-Stephen (Steg)
 "Word making is world making."
     ~ _The Beginning of Desire: Reflections on Genesis_
          by Avivah Zornberg

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