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AUXLANG  May 2001, Week 3

AUXLANG May 2001, Week 3

Subject:

Petry on Occidental and Interlingua

From:

STAN MULAIK <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 19 May 2001 20:56:55 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (99 lines)

*       Newsgroups: europa.linguas
*       From: [log in to unmask] ("auliuniv")
*       Subject: 95% or 99%
*       Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 17:49:39 +0000 (UTC)
*       Organization: Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
*       Mail-From: [log in to unmask] from mail8.wlv.netzero.net [209.247.163.58]

Stan made an interesting comment about the comparison of Interlingua having
95% Occidental words in it already.
He says this shows that with ILa it is possible to have 99% accuracy versus
just 95% with Occidental/Interlingue.

This misses the point. The other 5% that ILa has come up with via the
methods of Dr. Gode have added an element to the language that actually
reduces its ability to be instantly recognizable to many millions more
people. That 5% is a step backwards, not forwards, as Stan tries to claim.

And, it appears that some or all of his remark is based on the method of
word derivation used  by Dr. Gode and the staff in NY to put together the
list of 27,000 words in the IED. And, later, the updating of the word list
by others.

Yet, the question has still not been answered as to HOW the Occidentalists
came up with the 95% of the word list without the help of the derivation
method of Dr. Gode. One recent answer by a former Occidentalist who went to
ILa is that sr. De Wahl and the others used "intuition" to discover the
words. In other words, they lucked out, if one believes that comment. And,
from that comment we can see that the majority of modern folks have no idea
whatsoever about how the vocabulary used in Occidental was derived.

Dr. Gode and his staff supposedly used this method: "A word is to be
accepted as international when its presence is attested - in corresponding
forms and with corresponding meanings - in at least three of the language
units, Italian, Spanish and/or Portuguese, French and English, with German
and Russian as possible substitutes.

Now, can Stan or anyone who knows, tell us when [i.e. what year ]this method
was determined and first used by Gode and staff? And, can someone explain
where this rule came from? Was this in the Stillman and Gode manuscript of
some 500 pages? ;-)

Stan has commented that I probably don't know how de Wahl and the other
Occidentalists obtained their international words. He quotes one as saying,
since he was an Occidentalist, that his experience shows it came from
"intuition". And, his experience also included helping combine the
mimeographed pages together for the Kemp-Pope dictionary. Therefore, if
anyone today should know, he should.

However, I do know exactly how the Occidentalists and de Wahl compiled their
word lists, and it was NOT intuition. And, any studied Occidentalist of many
years should also know how it was done.

Suppose two people today want to do that, i.e. compile their own word list.
One an Occidentalist, and the other an Interlinguaist. Which one do you
suppose would have the easiest time of it? ;-) We're assuming they have no
Occidental or Interlingua dictionary available. In fact, this is the way the
Occidentalists had to operate anyway prior to 1925. They had no formal
dictionary, yet they found and used the correct words. Hmmmm? Now, how do
you suppose they did that if all they had was intuition?

I'm not going to explain the method here, but I can tell you this. De Wahl
was using this method even before he presented Occidental in 1922. IALA it
appears did not have a method until way after 1939. Hopefully, Stan can tell
us when they finally had their formula? ;-) Which brings up the question,
where did their words come from before they had the above quoted method to
rely on? Double ;-).

Anyway, the Occidentalist would have the easiest time in compiling the
words. The method is so simple it's absolutely amazing. And, the simple
"rules" for making adjustments if needed are truly simple and ingenious. All
available before the foundation of IALA in 1924.

The biggest criticism from the beginning of IALA's work by the
Occidentalists was the fact that they had no clear method of derivation of
international words, and wouldn't even discuss the topic in their early
meetings. But, finally, they did arrive at a method, which I quoted above
from the IED.

So, how does an organisation obtain all those same words Occidental had been
using since 1922, when they had no method for deriving them until sometime
after the 1936-1939 period? And, what did the Occidentalists know that
beyond "intuition" that gave them the easy key to word derivation before
there were any dictionaries?

Cordialmen,
Bob, x+O~




NetZero Platinum
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