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AUXLANG  May 2001, Week 3

AUXLANG May 2001, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Petry on Occidental and Interlingua

From:

michael farris <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Mon, 21 May 2001 12:00:11 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (104 lines)

Okay, I have europa.linguas, but don't seem to get any of these messages (not that I'm
necessarily complaining, but it probably means I'm not getting other stuff too. The
traffic I get for europa. is _extremely_ limited. How can I get more?

-mike farris

STAN MULAIK wrote:

> *       Newsgroups: europa.linguas
> *       From: [log in to unmask] ("auliuniv")
> *       Subject: 95% or 99%
> *       Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 17:49:39 +0000 (UTC)
> *       Organization: Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
> *       Mail-From: [log in to unmask] from mail8.wlv.netzero.net [209.247.163.58]
>
> Stan made an interesting comment about the comparison of Interlingua having
> 95% Occidental words in it already.
> He says this shows that with ILa it is possible to have 99% accuracy versus
> just 95% with Occidental/Interlingue.
>
> This misses the point. The other 5% that ILa has come up with via the
> methods of Dr. Gode have added an element to the language that actually
> reduces its ability to be instantly recognizable to many millions more
> people. That 5% is a step backwards, not forwards, as Stan tries to claim.
>
> And, it appears that some or all of his remark is based on the method of
> word derivation used  by Dr. Gode and the staff in NY to put together the
> list of 27,000 words in the IED. And, later, the updating of the word list
> by others.
>
> Yet, the question has still not been answered as to HOW the Occidentalists
> came up with the 95% of the word list without the help of the derivation
> method of Dr. Gode. One recent answer by a former Occidentalist who went to
> ILa is that sr. De Wahl and the others used "intuition" to discover the
> words. In other words, they lucked out, if one believes that comment. And,
> from that comment we can see that the majority of modern folks have no idea
> whatsoever about how the vocabulary used in Occidental was derived.
>
> Dr. Gode and his staff supposedly used this method: "A word is to be
> accepted as international when its presence is attested - in corresponding
> forms and with corresponding meanings - in at least three of the language
> units, Italian, Spanish and/or Portuguese, French and English, with German
> and Russian as possible substitutes.
>
> Now, can Stan or anyone who knows, tell us when [i.e. what year ]this method
> was determined and first used by Gode and staff? And, can someone explain
> where this rule came from? Was this in the Stillman and Gode manuscript of
> some 500 pages? ;-)
>
> Stan has commented that I probably don't know how de Wahl and the other
> Occidentalists obtained their international words. He quotes one as saying,
> since he was an Occidentalist, that his experience shows it came from
> "intuition". And, his experience also included helping combine the
> mimeographed pages together for the Kemp-Pope dictionary. Therefore, if
> anyone today should know, he should.
>
> However, I do know exactly how the Occidentalists and de Wahl compiled their
> word lists, and it was NOT intuition. And, any studied Occidentalist of many
> years should also know how it was done.
>
> Suppose two people today want to do that, i.e. compile their own word list.
> One an Occidentalist, and the other an Interlinguaist. Which one do you
> suppose would have the easiest time of it? ;-) We're assuming they have no
> Occidental or Interlingua dictionary available. In fact, this is the way the
> Occidentalists had to operate anyway prior to 1925. They had no formal
> dictionary, yet they found and used the correct words. Hmmmm? Now, how do
> you suppose they did that if all they had was intuition?
>
> I'm not going to explain the method here, but I can tell you this. De Wahl
> was using this method even before he presented Occidental in 1922. IALA it
> appears did not have a method until way after 1939. Hopefully, Stan can tell
> us when they finally had their formula? ;-) Which brings up the question,
> where did their words come from before they had the above quoted method to
> rely on? Double ;-).
>
> Anyway, the Occidentalist would have the easiest time in compiling the
> words. The method is so simple it's absolutely amazing. And, the simple
> "rules" for making adjustments if needed are truly simple and ingenious. All
> available before the foundation of IALA in 1924.
>
> The biggest criticism from the beginning of IALA's work by the
> Occidentalists was the fact that they had no clear method of derivation of
> international words, and wouldn't even discuss the topic in their early
> meetings. But, finally, they did arrive at a method, which I quoted above
> from the IED.
>
> So, how does an organisation obtain all those same words Occidental had been
> using since 1922, when they had no method for deriving them until sometime
> after the 1936-1939 period? And, what did the Occidentalists know that
> beyond "intuition" that gave them the easy key to word derivation before
> there were any dictionaries?
>
> Cordialmen,
> Bob, x+O~
>
> NetZero Platinum
> No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
> Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
> http://www.netzero.net
>
> --
> Posted from mail8.wlv.netzero.net [209.247.163.58]
> via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

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