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AUXLANG  May 2001, Week 4

AUXLANG May 2001, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Stan Mulaik and his comments

From:

"Donald J. HARLOW" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 26 May 2001 13:50:39 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (97 lines)

Je 03:25 ptm 5/26/01 -0400, Stan MULAIK skribis
>Don,
>    I stand corrected, and I apologize to Bob for my copying his "private"
>message to the net.
>
>}>Don,
>}>    Possibly you are right.  In all my years on the internet, I've not
>}>heard of that rule however.
>}
>}Actually, it's simply an extension of a basic rule of polite behavior of
>}pre-net times. Had I carried on a correspondence with, let us say, Zamenhof
>}over the years, and decided to write a book about his life, it would
>}certainly have been considered at least gauche of me to publish his letters
>}to me without his express permission, at least during his lifetime.
>}
>}I do remember reading that the author retains copyright control over
>}his/her letters, whether paper or electronic. This fits with the general
>}rule that, at least in the USA, anything you write is automatically
>}copyrighted (though most people suppose that you must first pay a fee to
>}some nebulous organization in Washington).
>}
>
>However, there is an element of fair use here, and the fact that
>the author of the message to me had copied works out of other publications,
>which renders those quotations as not protected by copyright.  The
>said author had also already stated his interpretations of those works
>in an open message to the list.

Fair enough. You are certainly justified in requoting the material that Bob
quotes (which, again, are usually extracts, and therefore "fair use"), but
your point would be better served, I think, by summing up Bob's arguments
in your own words rather than reposting entire e-mails, which, again, is a
violation of netiquette, whatever Bob has posted publicly in the past.

>According to my book on copyright law
>
>"Of course, e-mail is distributed and modified all the time without
>obtaining express permission from the copyright owners.  So long as
>this is not done for commercial purposes it probably constitutes a
>fair  use--for example, it's undoubtedly a fair use to quote portions
>of an e-mail message for a scholarly, journalistic or educational
>purpose.  However, some people who send e-mail may not be aware of
>this and may be upset if their messages are copied without their
>permission.  Although it's highly unlikely anyone would bother
>to bring a copyright infringement suit over something as valueless
>as e-mail, it's good manners to ask permission before distributing
>another person's e-mail."  Fishman, S. The Copyright Handbook.
>Nolo Press. p. 14/9.

Fishman's observation in his first sentence comes, I think, from scholarly
lists where there's a tacit agreement that, under these circumstances, this
activity is tolerable, whatever the general rule of netiquette may be. I
note that in his second sentence, he uses the word "probably". As to
whether e-mail is "valueless", I think that's a matter of personal judgment
on the part of the original writer.

However, from a purely objective point of view, I will be glad to stipulate
(though you haven't asked me to do so) that in the few postings in this
particular discussion that I've read you haven't posted anything, written
by Bob or yourself, that is in any way not a matter of public record, nor
do you appear to have violated any confidences unless it be some sort of
unnecessary blanket confidence that was never made explicit by anybody, and
which may have been invoked strictly _post facto_ in a bout of
self-justification.

>That's fair use, BTW.
>
>I thought I was engaged in a scholarly discussion with Bob and that
>we were merely continuing the discussion in a way not to burden the
>rest of the list with long messages.  Bob presented some quotes
>(without getting permission because he was using the material for
>fair use) and he indicated they were backing up his earlier statements
>on the group.  When I finally saw where he was coming from and had
>in my possession other sources he seemed not aware of, I felt it
>important to take the material back to the public forum and lay it
>all out for all to see.  I think a greater mutual understanding was
>achieved.

With apologies, Stan, after spending almost four years on this list and
seeing over most of that time how certain people react to historical
evidence, I suspect that when you use the word "mutual" you are engaging in
unjustified optimism. Oh, well, I guess optimism is a better basis for life
than pessimism.


-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html

Branĉetoj nudaj
Antaŭ ĉiel' lazura
Lunon aĵuras.

Se vi serĉas...
   Novelojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Noveloj/
   Poemojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/
   Recenzojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Recenzoj/

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