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CONLANG  July 2001, Week 5

CONLANG July 2001, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Aelya and Cein Revisited

From:

Daniel Andreasson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:54:00 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (142 lines)

Aidan Grey wrote:

>Daniel:

> > PRONUNCIATION:
> > > [e'al n@j ni: an tSej'ni:D sen i a'dar a am: new]
> > [e'al si: n@j ni: an tSej'ni:D i ada'rOd new il
> > e'vIn]
> > [e'al na: i ejr new ta'nom i na: e'vIn sen vel'DUr]
> > [na: vel'DUr KIm vejn LIm leg]
> > [n@jnT I Dir aj In nen so:]
> > [na: so: an jej'Ki:D in ni: @ fa:b ni: in so:]

>I forget - does /'/ indicate stress on preceding or
>following syllable?

On the following. Stress in Cein is always on the final
syllable.

Note the new rules on vowel length that I've added.
A vowel is long when syllable final (except some short
always unstressed words) or when followed by a voiced
obstruent /b d g D v/. Examples _so_ [so:] 'he' and
_llug_ [Ku:g] 'dragon'.

> > eal ney        ni an ceinidd sen  i   adar a   amm    new
> > lo  be:1SG:PRS I  at see:INF here the father and mother my
> > 'Lo, I see here my father and mother.'

>How did you derive 'new'? Just curious.

From the possessive suffix _-va_ > _-w_. I just added that
to the old set of pronouns I had, _ne_ in the first person.
Then I changed the pronouns, but the possessive pronouns
remained.

> > na         felddur llim fein,     llim leg
> > be:3SG:PRS Valinor AUG  beautiful AUG  green
> > 'Valinor is so beautiful, so green.'

>Ooo! I like this use of llim (from limbe/lin?).

Yup! And thanks! :)

> > naenth     i   ddyr   a'i     in       sew    nen  so
> > be:3PL:PRS the man:PL and-the child:PL 3:POSS with he
> > 'Men and children are with him.'

>I much prefer your use of 'children' to what I had.
>I'm making some changes below...

Hehe. Actually I couldn't remember the word for 'boy',
I had my wordlist at home, so I just took the word for
children (sg. _en_ < hna ; pl. _in_ < hni). But 'child'
is pretty good in this context.

> > Predicative adjectives and nouns work as verbs,
> > but unlike verbs they undergo soft mutation.

>Nice! Very realistic!

Thanks, but I stole this from Welsh. Well, I came up with
it before I knew it was the same in Welsh, it just felt
like it fitted Cein. And adjectives and nouns so often
undergo soft mutation that I thought it should here as well.
In Welsh adj and nouns only undergo limited soft mutation
(i.e. not for rh and ll). Not a big diff though! :)

Perhaps they should undergo nasal mutation because of the
_an_?

> > COMPARISON BETWEEN CEIN AND AELYA:

>Since I translated this, a couple of things have
>changed. I've found a couple of the words in my vocab
>list (now over 1500 entries!).

Good lord! I have around 250 only. How do you find
the time?

> > Bhean an Bhelen, laog an se.

>-> Lembhean Bhelen, as lellaog se.
>I like len- (from lin-) better here (Thanks
>Daniel!). Note assimilation to initial consonant of
>adjective.

I liked the analytic nature of the _an_ particle
as well, but it's cool the way the /n/ assimilates
to the next cons. Perhaps it's a bit more European too.

> > Naenth i ddyr a'i in sew nen so. [CEIN]
> > Na deir a seill ess dhoro. [AELYA]

>-> Nai deir aren ein ess dhoro.
>   Nai = na + art
>   aren = as + art
>   ein = children (from hiin, hini)

Perhaps I should ditch the apostrophes in these short
words like you have. I *have* to come up with dative
forms of the pronouns too. I like having no distinction
between the subject and the object forms tho.

> > Na so an ieillidd in ni. A mab ni in so.
> > Na so ar dholad nean. A dtold en nas.

>Na so ar ghyalad nean, a gcolad en nas.
>ghyalad =len. + call (< Q. yal, enyalie) + VN

Oh, so you mutate the verbs? I used Q. _yell-_
for 'call, yell'. And again, where did you get
the _-ad_ VN ending? I think the infinitive _-idd_
I have is a bit odd. OTOH, _-idd_ isn't used for
much else so I guess it doesn't really function
as an infinitive in Cein.

>  gcolad = soft mut. + col (bring, bear) + VN
>  /na so @r Cal@d n&n @ gol@d en nas/

Is /C/ the ich-laut (voiceless palatal fric) or the
voiceless palatal affricate? Ich-laut, right?

> > Please tell me what you think.

>    I like it! I've got enough vocab now that grammar
>getting hammered out is not too far away, though I
>wouldn't say it's shaky. All kinds of things yet to
>figure out about clauses and such. And objects of
>subordinate clauses! I plan on using a little Irish
>and a little Welsh in this regard.

I feel I'm getting behind on working on Cein. You
seem to have come so much farther with Aelya. Oh
well, festina lente, as they say.

||| daniel


_________________________________________________________________
Hmta MSN Explorer kostnadsfritt p http://explorer.msn.se

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