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CONLANG  August 2001, Week 1

CONLANG August 2001, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Ander-Saxon and New Old English (was: RE: [CONLANG] Worldken bard Poul Anderson in deathstead (not a funny)

From:

Sally Caves <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:01:03 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (139 lines)

----- Original Message -----
From: And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Ander-Saxon and New Old English (was: RE: [CONLANG] Worldken
bard Poul Anderson in deathstead (not a funny)


> Sally:
> > Interesting surmise, And.
> >
> > This is a question I raise almost every time
> > I teach Old English.  What words would you
> > bring back and what would they have evolved
> > into?
>
> Next time you teach it, send me the answers to
> your question.

okay, will do!

> > It would take a philologist to reconstruct
> > an Alternate Modern English, but I think this
> > has been attempted, hasn't it?   At least in part?
>
> Point me to where I can find the attempts...

I don't know, And.  I have a dim recollection of seeing
references to a "purified English," more like Ander-Saxon.
 But what you are asking for is something considerably
more complicated.

> > But not to the degree that you are suggesting?
> >
> > What about late Latin borrowings?  Would they
> > be expelled from the AME?  Instead of
> > "dormitory" we'd have "sleepstowe"? etc.
>
> What does German do?

Schlafsaal.  Schlafstadt.  "Sleep room."  "Sleep place"
Same thing.

> > "Gleed," ("coal") is one of my favorite recon-
> > structions.  Actually, I think it's used in Yorkshire,
> > though, isn't it?  Burning gleeds.
>
> _Glede_, it's normally spelt, I think. I thought it
> meant 'a burning coal'.

I didn't know it was in currency.  I brought it back
the way I thought it would be spelled today.  It could
either be "glede" or "gleed."  I was following the
analogy with "seed," which you find in Middle English
sometimes spelled "sede."

> > "Beership" for "party" is another one I'd bring back.
> > "Dright" for "lord" or "master."
> > "Seal" for "occasion"?  "Songseal,"
> >     "a time for singing"?
> > "Overmood" for "arrogance"?
> > "Gale" for "sing"?  gale, gole, galen?
> > "Thorf" for "need"?  I thorf, he tharf, we thorf?
> >     I thorfed yesterday?  Or:  he tharfs?
> >     (would the preterite present verbs lose their
> >     distinctive third person singular present
> >     formation?)
> > "Nay" for "suffice"?  It nay?  It nught?
> >     (pronounced "newt" /nut/)
>
> A very good start, this.
>
> > It could function as a modal, as do most of the
> > other pret.pres. verbs:  "It nay be said" (it
> > suffices to be said, it's enough to say); "It nught
> > be told," etc.
>
> Could you have "He nay go" -- 'it suffices that he
> go'?

Why not?

> > And then, our lovely Class 4 verb niman, nam,
> > namon, numen, which got replaced by Scandinavian
> > "take":  so  "I nam his horse for he hath numen me
> > wain."  ("I took his horse because he's taken my
> > wagon.")
> >
> > In a construction of an alternate modern English,
> > though, we'd also have to decide if we're going to
> > leave in other interventions, such as the assimilation
> > of Scandinavian "th" in the pronouns and possessives:
> > "they" instead of "hie," and so forth.  What about the
> > Scandinavian assumption of "-s" in the third person
> > singular present indicative?  Would it be "hath" or
> > "has"?
>
> Were I doing the AME, I'd remove from history only the
> Norman conquest.

Okay, that makes it considerably simpler.

> No modern dialects I'm acquainted with use 3sg -th or
> a reflex of "hie", but 5 miles from my place of work
> you can find people who quotidianly use _hoo_ /u:/
> instead of _she_. (Unfortunately I don't get to hear it,
> because such speakers wouldn't speak such broad dialect
> to me, though I do get the odd _thee_ and _thou_.)

Wow!  Hoo!  Don't they get it mixed up with "who"?
Middle English variants:  heo, scheo, scho, ho.

> > What other assimilations would we allow?  What
> > other changes or shortenings?  What spellings?
> >
> > Are you aware of our under-visited ENGLISC
> > listserv where some of us, in varying degrees of
> > enthusiasm, attempt to compose or translate into
> > Old English?  At the moment, several members
> > are writing a romance in Old English.  We've translated
> > the Gettysburg Address, the Four Questions of the
> > Seder, and we attempted to translate some of Isidore's
> > De Portentis, "On Monsters."
> >
> > http://www.rochester.edu/englisc
>
> I was aware of it, but lack the requisite knowledge and
> competence to participate. Indeed, my anglophilia doesn't
> stretch back beyond Early Modern English; that is, the
> language that I love with all my soul was born around
> five hundred years ago.

It's probably English in its finest hour, And.  I regret the loss
of that richness.

Sally Caves
[log in to unmask]
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teonaht.html

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