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SCUBA-L  August 2001, Week 2

SCUBA-L August 2001, Week 2

Subject:

Fundamentals Class Report (Long)

From:

Gozum Clinical Informatics Server <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scuba diving discussion list <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:53:25 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (132 lines)

A wonderful report Paul, and I'm glad you had a great and informative
time.  You're experience was certainly better than anything I've read on
techdiver in recently memory [ and hence, unsub'd.]  Some questions for you:

At 12:00 AM 8/14/2001 -0400, Automatic digest processor wrote:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:45:43 -0700
>Subject: Fundamentals Class Report (Long)
>
>... masks with me.  I'm having a blast.
>
>This is exactly what had been missing from some of my discussions on
>the net.  Reasonable, intelligent arguments, without a lot of
>hyperbole and name calling, so that you can make a decision for
>yourself.  You get what you pay for!
>

Excellent, the way it should be!

in that direction.  I'm referring to the oxygen window, or gradient.
>It's a pretty complicated theory, that explains why you should use
>100% oxygen to decompress rather than something like 80% oxygen.
>Andrew makes it really simple.  Imagine a milk truck.  The truck
>holds 10 bottles of milk, full or empty.  When you use 80%, the truck
>has to cart around 2 empty bottles to your house, and can only
>deliver 8 full bottles, and take away 8 empty ones.  When you use
>100%, each time the truck comes, you get 10 full bottles, and get rid
>of 10 empty ones.  Obviously this is extremely simplified, but it
>gets the point across nicely.

What this analogy doesn't add is the risk of oxtox at 20fsw, which is the
MOD of 100%.  In the North Atlantic, a reasonable diving day can have waves
crest at over 5 feet, if you held a depth at 20 fsw, you'd already be
momentary below MOD.  I think what's left out is that 02 breaks are taken
on your backgas and that's a difficult analogy to make for a milk
truck.  How did the GUE address the oxtox risk?  In one of Irvine's tirades
he insults that these seas are not to be dived, which is more than 50% of
the NJ wreck experience.

In my last 3 NJ wreck dives, wave action in relatively come seas make it
difficult to hold one's depth at under 15 fsw, but much easier just under
20 fsw ... while floating prone in the water!


>to dive dry, is to dive with as little gas as possible in the suit.
>Andrew makes us get in the water with just the suit on, letting all
>the air out of suit using hydrostatic pressure (the pressure of the
>water).  We get out of the water.
>Man this is tight!  Andrew explains that this it the baseline, this
>is how the suit should feel.  Down to 30 fsw or so, we do not need to
>add any air to the suit.


Yes, but I've rarely seen any GUE images with suits that snug, any comments?
http://www.gue.com/research/wkpp/reports/index.shtml

>Andrew tells us that we should be able to operate all our valves, be
>it on a single tank or on a double tank.  We practice this, as well
>as staying horizontal in the water at all times, and we do some
>drills involving removal of the mask and air sharing.  Andrew and
>Rick point out some problems, if we haven't spotted them already.
>I'm teamed up with Dan Shaar, since we have a similar setup.  We are
>trained to keep an eye on our buddy.  Team awareness is paramount.


Any rationale for maintaining the horizontal, or prone position, always?  I
can see this is a cave, but in open water?


>Andrew reaches for my belt, and opens the buckle.  He yanks it off me
>completely.  And I'm thinking "good thing I'm only in 20 fsw, because
>it's going to be like the song...elevator goooooing up!".  Nothing.
>Nada.  Zilch.  I'm still stuck on the bottom.  In fact, I have to put
>a bit of air in my BC just to get off the bottom.  I can't believe
>it.  16 pounds off my back, just like that.  And I thought I knew
>what I was doing.  Damn!  It sure feels nice to dive without that
>anchor around my body.  That alone was worth the price of the class!

An interesting move, a coup de theatre!  However, what was your weight with
your backplate and tanks? and could you descend without your weight belt
thereafter?


>Well, I think I won't give all of Andrews secrets away.  Suffice it
>to say, that we have a lot of problems under water, and we make a lot
>of silly mistakes.  It teaches us that we have a long way to go.  It
>also teaches us that mastering one skill at a time is not enough.
>Knowing how to do a safety stop, dealing with a lost mask or dealing
>with an OOA situation is one thing (well, ok so it's three things).
>Dealing with a combination of problems, is another skill all together.

This a noted hallmark of the GUE course, the problem drills.
It seems to get proficient at safety drills, one would have to practice
them often, and crucial is being able to reach the tank valves quickly!


>For example, a lot of us do recreational dives where we feel that a
>safety stop is more a necessity than an option.  Is it really
>reasonable to do such a dive, if you have no idea whether or not
>you'll be able to do the safety stop without a mask?  While sharing
>air?


How does this work Paul?  Is the GUE suggesting a safety stop should be
removed?  It would seem if you've encountered an OOA, critical equipment
failure, or a mask rupture at depth, a safety stop becomes unecessary as
you've other problems to content with, however, in a good dive, it would
seem as its implied, a safety stop.  The current thinking in deco theory is
that all dives are decompression dives, and instead of calling the tables
no decompression limits, they use the term no stop limits to emphasize that
the nitrogen saturation values [ called M-values, commonly] are calculated
to allow no stop surfacing.  The safety stop is the most crucial segment of
a decompression stop on backgas, air in this case, and can be valuable even
in the 1-3 min range.

>If you've been thinking about taking this class, stop thinking and do
>it.  You'll get more than you thought possible for your money, I sure
>did!


A worthwhile experience from the sheer freshness of their approach!
Kudos on an excellent report and thanks for sharing your experience with us
all.



Warm regards,


Marv

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