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CONLANG  September 2001, Week 4

CONLANG September 2001, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Ergative?

From:

Vasiliy Chernov <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:08:28 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (42 lines)

On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:44:46 -0500, Thomas R. Wier <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Quoting Vasiliy Chernov <[log in to unmask]>:
>> BTW, is there a simple criterion to distinguish the ergative
>> construction from the passive one?

> I would
>think that if a language has distinct forms for active and passive
>(ignoring whether it is ergative), then that might constitute such
>a criterion.  For example, in Phaleran, a detransitive morpheme
>explicitly distinguishes between passive, which has this, and the
>active, which lacks it:
>
>   ACTIVE:  Ahrallu      p      gethasyonti.
>            Governor.ERG boy-ABS see.TR.3SgPfRe.S
>            'The Governor looked at the boy.'
>   PASSIVE: P      ahrnto       gethabronti.
>            boy-ABS Governor.INST see.DETR.3SgPfRe.S
>            'The boy was looked at by the Governor.'

Sorry for another dull question, then... What's the difference?

I can see here two morphological forms of the verb demanding different
case marking for semantically same actant. Why do you call one
case/construction ergative, and the other instrumental/passive, and not
vice versa?

>(The valence-marking situation in Phaleran is complex; the suffix
>-asyo- here marked TR(ansitive) might be considered an active suffix,
>but it doesn't appear in every active construction.)
>
>So, you could artificially replace the ergative morphology with
>nominative/accusative morphology (and you would see this with Phaleran
>pronouns), but you'd still get distinct active and passive renderings.
>So, I think the two notions are quite distinct.

Are you saying that sentences can be also construed nominatively, and only
ergative (unlike instrumental) can/must be replaced with nominative?


Basilius

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